Is gambling required at the higher skill levels?

[pwd72s]

Funny thing..this playing with money at stake. Those asking me to play for money always told me I'd never get better without gambling. However, until a disappointing eye surgery made me decide to quit, I did get better though instruction, table time, and practice.

I'd decline playing for money, but tell them if they wanted to, I could call my honorary nephew. They'd ask his name. I'd say it. Suddenly, they didn't want to get better playing for money. (My honorary nephew is a local good player..Fargo around 700)

 

[jalapus logan]

Ah, more observations on pool pressure. Mosconi Cup players get what some on here call a "free roll"....they get paid to compete regardless of win or lose, obviously they get more if they win. Maybe 5 or 10k difference just guessing? Anyway, we've seen so may players choke in the Mosconi Cup event, with really pride and the pressures of being on a team on the line (or is that the pressure of NOT letting your team down?). Anyway, I remember watching Corey Deuel's bridge hand literally shaking on the TV screen. No way Corey would have been that nervous playing a gambling match for that amount of money. Reckon pressure gets us all at times one way or another, doesn't have to be the $

 

[Fatboy]

lots of people will play with you for nothing. but most all will suck.

pool is made for gambling and most people that get good do that from gambling under pressure.

i wont play anyone for free. never have in decades of pool. just like i wont play poker for free.

Exactly

Maybe the first year or 2 I would play for free as I was learning.

Like I mentioned I have just a couple people ever who can play that I’ll play for free. Mary Kenningston is one. We lock horns it’s on!

 

[Fatboy]

Ralf Souquet never gambles. He doesn’t “Like how it feels”. Which I respect that.

Also in Germany they have a league system that is made up of “hobby” players to professionals. There are serious league players there playing 8,9,10B and 14.1 who are serious players-not there for just the social aspect.

So it’s not mandatory to gamble to improve. But in America it’s probably a better road to go down. Nobody’s put a gun to my head to gamble. I opted into the action. Paid my dues, collected some as well. Was a good time

Fatboy

 

[Fatboy]

Ralf Souquet never gambles. He doesn’t “Like how it feels”. Which I respect that.

Also in Germany they have a league system that is made up of “hobby” players to professionals. There are serious league players there playing 8,9,10B and 14.1 who are serious players-not there for just the social aspect.

So it’s not mandatory to gamble to improve. But in America it’s probably a better road to go down. Nobody’s put a gun to my head to gamble. I opted into the action. Paid my dues, collected some as well. Was a good time

Fatboy

 

[Kid Dynomite]

Game is big enough for all of us, isn't it.

And please know that I have a table at home, so I play with myself a lot/ alone.

I have to say that I enjoy the battle on the green felt more than the actual playing part or practicing ...

I might be one of those guys who just loves to grind or fight.

I spar with whomever I can. The dollar amount is irrelevant. I battle just as hard for 20 a game as 200. Given that information, I play low and cheap stakes so i can play more. Occasionally, I will get up and jack it up if a customer wants to win their money back.

Nothing like ripping a man's heart out of his chest with a length of the table jump bank shot for the win!

Blackballed knows that feeling. I have seen him battle many times....

Lol practice at home. Wife and family life ... I Understand...

https://i.gifer.com/3oBS.gif

Kd

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

 

[eastcoast_chris]

I play my best when something is on the line... could be a tournament match win, league win, or money set.

If I'm playing for fun, I try stupid things. i.e. It would be cool to shoot this shot and break up a cluster when there is a simple lock up safety.

I don't bear down at all when I play for fun. I can still play good, because there is no pressure, but it is often cancelled out by my silly decisions.

I need the pressure to force myself to focus. Doesn't need to be much $'s and I never gamble more than I'm prepared to lose.

 

[gregcantrall]

Has anyone mentioned that playing for stakes is not gambling?

 

[benjaminwah]

Pool for me has been different things at different times in my life.

I’m too lazy to go down memory lane and talk about my story.

If you want to play better players the best way is to put value on pool and play for $.

I can’t play unless I’m in action, I could the first few years. I love pool, but after so many years of pool for $-free play isn’t possible. Unless it’s a social situation for a few games and I’m done.

Gambling on pool gives it value and most solid players value their time and their game. Get better and win some, lose some.

It’s possible to have a friend who plays better and not gamble. I have a couple people out of 1000’s I’ve known over the decades who play better than me and we don’t gamble. But it’s extremely rare. Same is true for weaker players, I have a couple friends who play weaker than me that I’ll play on a rare occasion and don’t gamble with.

It doesn’t have to be big action, $20 1P or races to 7 in a retention game is enough $ to keep score and try. Which is the point after you have played a zillion hours to gain a skill that you want to earn $ with. That’s pool.

At lower levels, and beginners free pool is cool and more normal. The higher you go up the ladder the fact is you have to pay to play a champion a challenge rack at an exhibition.

That how it goes

Fatboy<——-rail bird, just blowing his $ on rail bets now-less work that way.

"If you want to play better players the best way is to put value on pool and play for $. " That says it all. Thanks for that.

 

[poolnut7879]

Pool isn't really gambling. The game is usually won or lost before the flip of the kern.

 

[dendweller]

I love pool and play daily. As my skill level increased I've noticed a reoccurring theme. Whenever I match up with higher skilled players it always ends up with a proffer to gamble. Always.

I'll gamble sometimes. When I do I usually end up ahead, unless it's in doubles but that's another thread altogether, but gambling isn't why I'm there. Pool is why I'm there. I'll play rack after rack alone or practicing different aspects of the game by myself. I spend a lot of time coaching and playing with lower skill players and never have a problem finding someone to play with but inevitably whenever equally matched or higher skilled players come around it always ends up with a proffer to gamble.

I love to match up with equally skilled or higher skilled players. It makes my day. I love the competition and there is nothing I like better. However, within a few racks it inevitably turns into an offer to gamble and if the offer is declined there is no interest left.

Am I alone in this? Is it about the game or the gamble? Are the two inseparable? Does anyone want to match up for fun?

I learned to play at a social club, had some good players. They basically told me you should play for something, even if it's a quarter a game. They liked to gamble, pool, setback, cribbage, you name it. That's 40 years ago and I still kind of like to have something riding on it, 10 bucks a set or something. Now, better players don't want to play for 10, guess it's turned into the quarter a game from the 80s. I don't think I ever went over 20 a set, so I'm certainly not much of a gambler but having something on it is nice.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I guess what turned me off of gambling on pool was this...
Almost every time I did gamble, the DSOB's would wait till I got down on a difficult shot on the 8, and would stop me and want to raise the bet. I would say, "No. We agreed on $--.-- and that's what it was going to be".

I know it's a sharking move, but it pisses me off. Play for what we agreed on and raise the next game or set. Not in the middle of it. This has happened to me more then once, and it's GD irritating.
So I just won't gamble anymore. Maybe I just need to search out better quality people.

 

[dendweller]

I guess what turned me off of gambling on pool was this...
Almost every time I did gamble, the DSOB's would wait till I got down on a difficult shot on the 8, and would stop me and want to raise the bet. I would say, "No. We agreed on $--.-- and that's what it was going to be".

I know it's a sharking move, but it pisses me off. Play for what we agreed on and raise the next game or set. Not in the middle of it. This has happened to me more then once, and it's GD irritating.
So I just won't gamble anymore. Maybe I just need to search out better quality people.

you were most definitely gambling with the wrong people

 

[maha]

no you had the right guy. if you were better than 50% chance of making it raise the bet. if not say no or ask for odds on the bet.
you are in control of it and that's an advantage for you.

you are gambling and this is gambling. asking to raise the bet or whatever other than cheating is part of the game.

if a little sharking throws you off you need to think about how you view things.

 

[ShootingArts]

It isn't playing your best game for little or nothing, it is will the other player do the same?

Has anyone mentioned that playing for stakes is not gambling?

I don't know about stakes but I would be happy to play for steaks these days!

I haven't posted it yet but yeah, wagering may not be gambling. I took the long view. By doing that, after my earliest days I never booked a loss. I might have a loss one night, I was never down for a week or month. I was rarely down for a night. If I lost one place I would head across town looking for hopefully easier action.

Gambling rarely put huge pressure on me. I had property, I had money in the bank, I had money stashed at the house. I generally had a month's pay for most people on my person, somewhere. Never in my wallet, I had lost a few wallets. Jeans pockets, boots, shirts, jackets, lots of places to spread cash around.

Unusually cold down in the swamp. With nothing else happening a crowd had gathered on the rail to watch me play a decent money game. As usual when I could I had tossed my coat off when I warmed up a bit from playing. A girl was chilly and helped herself to the loose coat. She stuck cold hands in the slit pockets in the front corners of the jacket. Right next to those slit pockets were two pockets with snap down flaps. I was watching her left hand with interest. She never noticed anything untoward or thought anything about it.

When I got my jacket back I did a quick check that the almost three thousand was in place. I rarely carried over about a third that much but the last ten days or so had been good and that old jacket the only bank I had been close to. The girl looked astonished but not upset. Her date was the one with dollar signs in his eyes. He would have tried to steal the coat if he had known about the money. Good times!

Things have changed. One reason for the downtrend in pool is all the other places where it is easier to gamble. The ones mostly there to gamble are gone. That has some good and some bad aspects. Now you have pool players that gamble instead of gamblers that shoot pool. There is a difference.

Hu

 

[dendweller]

no you had the right guy. if you were better than 50% chance of making it raise the bet. if not say no or ask for odds on the bet.
you are in control of it and that's an advantage for you.

you are gambling and this is gambling. asking to raise the bet or whatever other than cheating is part of the game.

if a little sharking throws you off you need to think about how you view

if offering to raise the bet when someone is down on a hard shot is fine you may as well allow throwing shit at them when they are down on a shot.

 

[buckshotshoey]

you were most definitely gambling with the wrong people

That's probably true. We don't have any real pool halls around me… just bars.

I just got a bad taste of gambling and just stayed away from it.

 

[Dunnn51]

Wow, lots of opinions here.
To the op: "Gambling" is just the ratio of risk to reward. Does not matter what it is; Pool, Poker, Golf, craps, you name it.
If others see you playing, (sounds like you are playing around strangers), and want to gamble; they see an edge there. Happens often you say?? I would say you get approached to play $$ for 2 reasons. The likely one is you have a flaw that can be exploited, and the other is just Bravado by your opp.
Risk vs. reward (there is a reason why hustlers are called sharks)
I have had a guy want to play me $100 game on HIS table. I thought it funny as a visitor always brings his "B" game. I have rarely approached others to play for money. I let them come to me.
Playing for fun and playing with something on the line are 2 different things.
I play purely b/c I love the game.

 

[ShootingArts]

Pool isn't really gambling. The game is usually won or lost before the flip of the kern.

This is a major reason I very rarely gamble after coming back to pool. I have played with thousands of strangers. Never took over five minutes to negotiate a game. The game, the amount, the rules we were playing under, flip a coin.

Now I see people negotiating for over two hours to agree to a race to five nine ball. Thirty minutes or so and the pool is over. WHATDAF_K! After watching this over and over, no, no, and hell no!

The most fun I ever had playing pool was a battle with Danny Medina when we were both young. All the place had was bar boxes and the only games were eight and nine. If nobody specifies nine it is eight ball. The bet was small. Danny introduced himself with a front and back name, neither of which were his. He stalled three or four games forcing me to win. Pissed me off for him to think he had to hustle me so I turned back the same thing on him. Three of his balls left, all hanging where a six year old could make them and I had jawed the eight ball when I "missed". He caught an angry look from me and a minute later called me over. "My name is Danny Medina. I am a road player from Las Vegas." I was still Hu so we were set to go! I played Johnny Archer, a handful more road players of the day. After The Color of Money almost everyone that could run three balls was lying about their name and background so it didn't matter what they said. You made a game and rock'n'roll!

Now I see a stranger walk through the door. They see my case and come over. "Wanna hit a few?" The game and the bet gets lined out pretty easy but now they want a spot. Dude, neither one of us has seen the other hit a ball and you want to negotiate a spot? Go back to sucking on your momma's tit!


I guess what turned me off of gambling on pool was this...

Almost every time I did gamble, the DSOB's would wait till I got down on a difficult shot on the 8, and would stop me and want to raise the bet. I would say, "No. We agreed on $--.-- and that's what it was going to be".

I know it's a sharking move, but it pisses me off. Play for what we agreed on and raise the next game or set. Not in the middle of it. This has happened to me more then once, and it's GD irritating.
So I just won't gamble anymore. Maybe I just need to search out better quality people.

Definitely need better quality people to play with. You should be able to fade what you half suspect is coming meantime. Best to not shoot your shot while distracted. Stop, talk to them, take a swig of whatever you are drinking, amble off if you feel like it. Make it plain you have all the time in the world and will get back to the game when they want to. I would tell them the bet is set but you will bet twenty or whatever on the side on this shot. Gotta teach them they are wasting time messing with you.

One thing, with very rare exceptions, when most much lower skill level players come over and want to play I usually play them free. I do it for the game, and I do it to pay it forward to the people that helped me that I can never pay back. If there are very specific reasons I can't play that time I explain and tell them to catch me another time. If we want the game to thrive we do have to give something back sometimes.

Hu

 

[Sheldon]

State lottery (poker machines) really killed the pool action around here. It's almost impossible to count on anyone betting while you're out on a random night since then.