What Do You Look For in a Pool Instructor

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
Not a CTE guy
Part of me wants to see what that is about. There has to be something to it. Then again, when I'm shooting well, it's like there's a glowing dot where I need to put the cue ball and the ball just gets there. The whole remembering pivots etc. would seem to take me out of the process. Of course, it might be nice to have something I could fall back on on those days when I can't see the shot.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think an instructor has to articulate anything. I could shadow Efren, speaking no English, and I think I'd learn a ton from him. Think Inner Game of Tennis. Maybe throw 5 balls on the table, have him run out. Then I'd repeat his exact patterns. Do that a few hours. No language needed. Again, that's just me, and my opinion:)

You can do the same thing just watching matches on YouTube.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here's a very vanilla question for the board: what are your criterion for giving an instructor you money, time, and attention?

In another thread there was list of some very talented people that offer instruction: Anthony Beeler; Mark Wilson; Tor Lory; Jerry Briesath; Bert Kinster; Stan Shuffett; Max Eberle; Randy G; Little Joe; Dave Pearson; Jackie Carol; John Schmidt; Dan Louie. I suspect there are others like Sammy Diep, Demetrius Jelatis, Tommy Kennedy, Nick Varner, and Matt Sherman. There's also a 14.1 guy on the East Coast but his name escapes me at the moment.

They all have something to offer the aspiring pool player. So I am asking: what is it that you look for and would lead you to pick *one* instructor over another.

Lou Figueroa
Communication
Video analysis (of me)
No pseudo science
Ability to demonstrate
Knowledge
Battle experience

And for me an instructor has to play better than I do. A coach on the other hand doesn’t. My personal opinion and definitions.
 

Mikkes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I am asking: what is it that you look for and would lead you to pick *one* instructor over another.

Lou Figueroa
I´m playing pool now for 34 years and in the late 80´s there were no pool trainers in Germany.
I had to learn the stand and swing autodidactic and there was no person to show me the right way or correct my failures.
Fast forward, in 2017 one of the best german instructors, Christian Reimering, taught me the proper way of playing pool. I'll had to learn to "walk" again. He is very good in --demonstrate--explain--reproduce--practice
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think part of being a good student is being willing to do what an instructor says with an open mind. Then take what works for you and leave the other stuff. That suggestion is probably best for an intermediate player who has the awareness and ability to do that.
I'm on the other side of this. I've been around enough pool to have formulated very strong ideas and ideals about it. The Youtube bunch for instance; it's a product not unlike meal kits - easy to digest hopefully nutritious. Self sustaining and probably not exactly what you need - exception in my mind being Dr. Dave; volumes of relevant information. I consider him the reference standard.

Associating with good players was far more beneficial to me. Those that will aid in your development will zero in on what you need to know right there instead of the next item in their curriculum @ 200 bucks and hour. You are allowed to grow at your own pace with no artificial constraints. (like becoming a champion) lol.


As for pool technique, I know a couple things about developing technique and the best way is to develop it yourself at the most pedantic pace you can stand. Of course you need to have an idea of what high level playing looks and acts like but that's easy to find. Youtube acquits itself admirably on this point especially if pool has dwindled in your area.


In my case, linearity is prime, as is center ball. It's all central and essential to producing the geometry.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Here's a very vanilla question for the board: what are your criterion for giving an instructor you money, time, and attention?

In another thread there was list of some very talented people that offer instruction: Anthony Beeler; Mark Wilson; Tor Lory; Jerry Briesath; Bert Kinster; Stan Shuffett; Max Eberle; Randy G; Little Joe; Dave Pearson; Jackie Carol; John Schmidt; Dan Louie. I suspect there are others like Sammy Diep, Demetrius Jelatis, Tommy Kennedy, Nick Varner, and Matt Sherman. There's also a 14.1 guy on the East Coast but his name escapes me at the moment.

They all have something to offer the aspiring pool player. So I am asking: what is it that you look for and would lead you to pick *one* instructor over another.

Lou Figueroa
I will make your game much better in a one-hour lesson. That's the standard I seek in fellow teachers whom I've collaborated with.

And my claim for the upcoming clinic is you will go up several handicap points/an entire letter ranking in a day, from "C" to "B" and so on: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...tom-kennedy-matt-sherman.553972/#post-7545744
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Part of me wants to see what that is about. There has to be something to it. Then again, when I'm shooting well, it's like there's a glowing dot where I need to put the cue ball and the ball just gets there. The whole remembering pivots etc. would seem to take me out of the process.
The concept of pivots is a total misunderstanding. In Pro1 there are NO pivots. All visual.
Of course, it might be nice to have something I could fall back on on those days when I can't see the shot.
I don't want to get into it because my post will get deleted by a certain Mod for being "douchebaggery". (I swear it's true)
But in it's most simple form, it's there in EVERY method of aiming. Contact points, fractions, "See the shot", overlaps, ghostball, etc.
The visual edge of the CB and visual center of the CB are simultaneously present and seen on the OB. But NOT if you're looking for something else to link the balls and only focused on the imaginary.

These are ways to link, see, visualize the CB to the OB to the pocket. Every time one of the above is used and right on the money with one of the visuals above, the edge of the CB and the center of the CB are also superimposed on the OB. Nobody thinks to look for it just out of curiosity, but it's there. Always! The edge of the CB is the most clearly seen for overlapping and goes from one edge of the OB to the other. It jumps out with no imagination right to left and left to right like a full eclipse of the moon. Nothing could be more straight forward and visible than CB edge locked on a specific area of the OB. CCB is always there right with the edge.

That's what is taught. It's there as clear as can be, just learn to use them simultaneously without the imagination and guesswork of other methods. 100% visual and visible. No ghosts, fractions, contact points which are in fact there, but imaginary.

THE END. NO MORE TO BE DISCUSSED.
 
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WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Before an initial lesson it is important to do your research on a guy and see if he matches up with what you are looking to work on. This is also level dependent. An SL5 can benefit greatly from just about anybody. A guy with a Fargo north of 700 is much more limited in his options and likely much more focused on specialized topics.

If looking to get better at the game, find a guy great at the game you want to improve at.
If you are more interested in leveling up your stroke, you're probably looking for a different type of instructor and this can get very tricky....

If you have a technique you like and is reliable and just may need a little sanding of rough edges, you need to find an instructor that is flexible and able to work with various techniques rather than having the approach of 'my way is right, anything else is a stroke flaw'.

Any insight you can get into the core technique an instructor teaches will also help you find a guy that teaches something that resonates with you and is already close to what you do. This is super key and a common consideration in golf where it is known what type of stroke a coach prefers to teach. Consider that two master level instructors can be teaching techniques where one considers what the other teaches 'a stroke flaw'. Take grip as a simple example.... In Keeler's vid on the grip on YouTube, he talks about leaving the pinky entirely off the cue as it can affect straight cueing. On the other hand, there is a school of thought that teaches a back 3 finger grip and considers gripping in the front of the hand as prone to twisting and turning over, favoring the stability of the back 3. This school has master level instructors of their own. A third approach...the flexible guys I mentioned earlier, understand how the body works and the pros and cons of various grips and don't really care which their students use as long as they are using the one they chose correctly. And can help tweak either one and a handful of others.

Lotta choices. Do your research. And don't be scared to quit a guy after one lesson if you didn't like the fit.
 

mattb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wish I knew then what I know now. I wish I had found someone less pushy and not just trying to fill their agenda with clients.

While the guy I used was nice, informed and came with a national accreditation, he was not for me. I think if I had spent more time talking to him instead of quickly agreeing to a session I would have found this out and could have picked someone closer to what I was looking for.

This guy tried to rework years of form that really wasn't that bad as agreed upon by numerous people I played around and with over the years. But since it wasn't what he was peddling, he considered it wrong.

I guess I would look for someone to work on what I wanted to tackle and not what they wanted. Someone who works with me and not someone who wants to recreate the wheel so to speak.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You can do the same thing just watching matches on YouTube.
I have done that before, marked on the table Buddy Hall's layout after his break, and tried to run out the same way he did. Unfortunately, I got lazy, and only did it a couple times 15 years ago. Laziness vs ambition is probably at least half the battle:)
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have done that before, marked on the table Buddy Hall's layout after his break, and tried to run out the same way he did. Unfortunately, I got lazy, and only did it a couple times 15 years ago. Laziness vs ambition is probably at least half the battle:)
Drive - Desire Dedication, Discipline
 
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Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
An instructor is cheating! Pool is a journey! Experiment Experiment and Experiment some more!

Lots of great free stuff out there if you search and educate yourself!

Dr. Dave website!
99 moves Ray Martin!
Stroke training tool!
Aiming by number ball set!
Svb Aiming system using ferrule
Azbilliards.com

I suggest that you go ahead and exhaust the free stuff online and get a library of books before you start lessons.

Kd


Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
I had a fortunate experience with lessons, long ago. I have related the story, perhaps more than once on this forum.😉 It is however on topic and worth repeating.
In the middle 80s I was regularly winning a local B tournament and doing well in the small fry ring games. My theory was that I could learn by investing my winnings by playing a Road Player cheap. He seemed to have a weekly circuit around the Seattle Tacoma area and I was shooting $20 at him on a weekly basis. At first just thinking if I lasted longer I was getting better. It didn't take long for me to figure out that I lasted as long as he was in the mood for, usually around an hour. So realizing the folly of my theory, I proposed lessons at $20/hrs. I was thinking of learning one pocket theory and shots, as that was his game that the locals champions couldn't touch.
His answer surprised me in a good way. It was, "I will give you lessons on one condition." Okay "what's that", was my inquiry. "We go back to Basics", was his reply. It tipped me that he really knew how to give lessons, so "Okay" was easy. Then he added a stipulation...No gambling while taking lessons. I needed to focus on rebuilding from the ground up.
One hour a week for 6 weeks before he went south for the season. The first lesson only addressed the stance and how to get into it. He gave me some simple drills and the prescription was spend an hour a day locking in what he showed me. The next week we moved on to the delivery of the cue. Each lesson allowed the one week of practice to break old habits.
Backward Jan was the name I knew him by. He got that handle because he turned his baseball cap backwards when he was in action.
My experience would lead me to advice of, avoid the one lesson miracle improvements advertisement. Pretty much avoid anyone that doesn't want to start with The Basics. So many B players think (as I did) that they are ready for advanced lessons. The investment of time and confidence in the coaching can pay dividends.
If and when a coach or instructor is chosen, show them respect. Take the course without running it by others to see "WHAT THEY THINK". Give their method a chance without poluting it with second guessing by the Peanut gallery. 🤷 And if you encounter or know Backward Jan.....ask for lessons. 👍
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
I had a fortunate experience with lessons, long ago. I have related the story, perhaps more than once on this forum.😉 It is however on topic and worth repeating.
In the middle 80s I was regularly winning a local B tournament and doing well in the small fry ring games. My theory was that I could learn by investing my winnings by playing a Road Player cheap. He seemed to have a weekly circuit around the Seattle Tacoma area and I was shooting $20 at him on a weekly basis. At first just thinking if I lasted longer I was getting better. It didn't take long for me to figure out that I lasted as long as he was in the mood for, usually around an hour. So realizing the folly of my theory, I proposed lessons at $20/hrs. I was thinking of learning one pocket theory and shots, as that was his game that the locals champions couldn't touch.
His answer surprised me in a good way. It was, "I will give you lessons on one condition." Okay "what's that", was my inquiry. "We go back to Basics", was his reply. It tipped me that he really knew how to give lessons, so "Okay" was easy. Then he added a stipulation...No gambling while taking lessons. I needed to focus on rebuilding from the ground up.
One hour a week for 6 weeks before he went south for the season. The first lesson only addressed the stance and how to get into it. He gave me some simple drills and the prescription was spend an hour a day locking in what he showed me. The next week we moved on to the delivery of the cue. Each lesson allowed the one week of practice to break old habits.
Backward Jan was the name I knew him by. He got that handle because he turned his baseball cap backwards when he was in action.
My experience would lead me to advice of, avoid the one lesson miracle improvements advertisement. Pretty much avoid anyone that doesn't want to start with The Basics. So many B players think (as I did) that they are ready for advanced lessons. The investment of time and confidence in the coaching can pay dividends.
If and when a coach or instructor is chosen, show them respect. Take the course without running it by others to see "WHAT THEY THINK". Give their method a chance without poluting it with second guessing by the Peanut gallery. 🤷 And if you encounter or know Backward Jan.....ask for lessons. 👍
Nice. The basics are wildly underrated and most people do not understand nearly as well as they think they do.

One thing I will say about the one day miracle lesson tho is that if someone is like an SL5 or even and SL6, one lesson could do absolute wonders for them. I've seen transformations inside 1 hour personally. If a technical flaw is bad enough and the fix easy enough, the jump in performance after one lesson can be eye popping. This applies to other sports like golf as well, but I've even seen it in a jumping clinic where some guys gain 6-8 inches in like 20min. They obv don't get stronger or more powerful, but good technique goes a long way. Similarly, smoothing out one's technical flaws in their pool game can result in as large an improvement as an 8" improvement in one's vertical. Sometimes it isn't even anything new....just showing the player what is working for them when they are 'on' vs not and showing them a way to tap into that at will.

Below SL5, you can see massive jumps even more often as these players usually have poor stroke concepts or ideas about how things work and just giving them the right way to conceptualize a stroke and shot making can be transformative for their game.

That said, these are lessons given by very knowledgeable coaches, not some regular guy giving cookie cutter 'do this this way only' type lessons. Those are indeed a waste of time and money and don't actually offer anything more than a handful of basic youtube videos...not even the good ones.
 
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