Men's 2023 World 8-Ball C'ship, Oct. 17-22, Austria

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Just got this press release. There will also be Women's and Junior's 10-ball championships at the same venue. I think the full release is here:
www.azbilliards.com

World 8-Ball Men’s Champion To Earn $75,000 - News - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The 2023 Predator WPA World 8-Ball Men’s Championship will pay its champion $75,000, the highest winner’s prize in tournament pool. That marks an increase from the $60,000 earned by defending champion Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz when he took the title home from Puerto Rico last year. The 2023 Preda
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The 2023 Predator WPA World 8-Ball Men’s Championship will pay its champion $75,000, the highest winner’s prize in tournament pool. That marks an increase from the $60,000 earned by defending champion Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz when he took the title home from Puerto Rico last year.​
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The 2023 Predator WPA World 8-Ball Men’s Championship will take place this October 17-22 at Sportpark Klagenfurt in Austria, which will also be hosting the Predator WPA World 10-Ball Women’s Championship (October 18-22) and the Predator WPA World 10-Ball Junior Championships (October 19-22).​
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The 96-player invited field for the Predator WPA World 8-Ball Men’s Championship will be competing for a total prize fund of $250,000. A race-to-8 double elimination bracket will reduce the field to 32 players who will then face single elimination to determine the champion.​
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The Predator Pro Billiard Series, working alongside Richwert promotions, returns to the picturesque city of Klagenfurt, home of the Jasmin Ouschan Billiard Academy, for the third time but this year marks the first staging of the Predator WPA World 8-Ball Men’s Championship in the country.​
 
could be good. last year's edition was fun but problematic. a lot of players complained about the slug racks but to be completely honest i found that it made it more interesting. top pros playing runout 8-ball can be very boring.

ref slug racking with a wonky triangle isn't totally fair, but in theory it would even itself out. not that that kind of statistical reasoning comes easy to the one who's just been dealt the slug.. i think darren's events in NY had it right with inverted break box and take what you make.

it's a nice winner's check but it's achieved by having a smaller field and the same purse as last year. i think?
 
skogstokig said:
... it's a nice winner's check but it's achieved by having a smaller field and the same purse as last year. i think?
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Last year was 128 less one withdrawal. I think 96 is plenty for a world championship. No one with a real chance of winning need be left out. Carom does well with 48. Pool used to have as few as four but with qualification events back when travel was harder.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Last year was 128 less one withdrawal. I think 96 is plenty for a world championship. No one with a real chance of winning need be left out. Carom does well with 48. Pool used to have as few as four but with qualification events back when travel was harder.
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i don't think i agree. would mohammed soufi have been invited to a small field WC? yet he made a cinderella run to the finals. will guys like zhou long or feliciano be invited to this one? they can potentially win it (true story). i like having qualifiers though
 
skogstokig said:
i don't think i agree. would mohammed soufi have been invited to a small field WC? yet he made a cinderella run to the finals. will guys like zhou long or feliciano be invited to this one? they can potentially win it (true story). i like having qualifiers though
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In theory, the players at the WC have been filtered through their respective confederations (plus some number of wild cards and additions based on high rankings that don't qualify otherwise). I think it is reasonable that such a filter be applied. I think it makes it more likely that a very strong player will win the championship.

In a huge field, there are many rounds and it is easy for the strongest player to be upset in one of the early rounds.

Large fields are nice but I don't think they are the best competition format to find the best player. An exception would be multiple levels of round-robin but ain't no one got time for that with 256 players.
 
I'm happy there are still a few major 8 ball tournaments for the pros.

However, I find bar table 8 ball more entertaining- it is interesting to see how the pros negotiate the break outs that are needed more on a bar table
 
It’s double elimination, down to the last 32, if they can’t fade that, they are not the strongest player.
 
westcoast said:
I'm happy there are still a few major 8 ball tournaments for the pros.

However, I find bar table 8 ball more entertaining- it is interesting to see how the pros negotiate the break outs that are needed more on a bar table
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Yes, it's a much better game on a bar table. Running a rack of eight ball on a nine-footer is too easy for the top pros and even "take what you make" rules, not used a year ago, make it just a little tougher.

That said, it's good to see the top pros have another good event to play in. I was glad to see this event brought back from the dead in 2002 and it's nice to see that it has proven sustainable.
 
Bob Jewett said:
In theory, the players at the WC have been filtered through their respective confederations (plus some number of wild cards and additions based on high rankings that don't qualify otherwise). I think it is reasonable that such a filter be applied. I think it makes it more likely that a very strong player will win the championship.

In a huge field, there are many rounds and it is easy for the strongest player to be upset in one of the early rounds.

Large fields are nice but I don't think they are the best competition format to find the best player. An exception would be multiple levels of round-robin but ain't no one got time for that with 256 players.
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good points. yes, i have no doubt the strongest player there will win. i'm just worried someone will be left out, a risk that increases when the size of the field decreases..
 
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skogstokig said:
... , i have no doubt the strongest player there will win. ...
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He won't win if he doesn't get his share of good rolls.

Suppose a tournament with 256 players has one 830 and all the other players are 750. Single elimination, race to 11. Piece of cake for the favorite? No.

The 830 is only 90% to win each match. He has to win 8 straight matches to win the title. That will only happen 43% of the time.

Sometimes people say, "Strongest player on that day, " but that's not really true usually. One of those 750s might have beaten the 830 with five golden breaks.

As for being left out, if a player is really a top player, he will place high in his confederation and will be sent to the WC. That will be over a season or three. Soufi makes a nice Cinderella story for the WC but if you look at his performance in other events, he has not, on average, performed as well this year as a bunch of other players.
 
Bob Jewett said:
As for being left out, if a player is really a top player, he will place high in his confederation and will be sent to the WC. That will be over a season or three. Soufi makes a nice Cinderella story for the WC but if you look at his performance in other events, he has not, on average, performed as well this year as a bunch of other players.
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he hadn't achieved much before either but yet it happened for him that week. and in a smaller field maybe he wouldn't have been there.

anyway, this will be fun. i hope we will see a couple of 8-ball specialists going there. melling wasn't in the last one and i'm not sure corey was either.
 
What a coincidence the WPA finds extra money for this event once it becomes clear Matchroom is a mortal threat to them.
 
skip100 said:
What a coincidence the WPA finds extra money for this event once it becomes clear Matchroom is a mortal threat to them.
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Darn right, whether it's WPA money, Federation money, Government money or sponsor money, it's tough not to suspect that they've had the means all along to arrange these kinds of payouts and are only doing what they are doing because their hand is suddenly forced.

On top of this, there is every reason to fear that they're about to engage in monopolistic behavior to slow down their competition. I'll reserve judgment until that happens, but the rhetoric we're hearing says it's imminent.

Also, why on earth would an 8-ball event carry the biggest first prize of the year? I'd put 8-ball fourth, at best, in the pro pecking order, behind 9ball, 10ball, and one pocket, each of which offer more major pro events annually than 8-ball.

Wonder if this is a mirage like the 2023 World 10ball in which Kaci's $60,000 first prize made up 24% of the total prize fund and the top four combined made $140,000, or 56% of the total prize fund, while the rest of the field combined to get $110,000. At the world 10-ball, the top prize was window-dressing, obscuring the fact the prize fund was inconsistent with the winner's check and that the extremely top-heavy payout meant that few made much money in the event.

By comparison, Kaci's other major this year was the UK Open. He earned $30,000 of the $200,000 total payout and the top four walked away with $64,000, 32% of the total prize fund.

Of course, maybe I'm wrong here. A typical winner's check in our sport is about 15% of the prize fund, so if it turns out that the World 8-ball will have a prize fund of $500,000 I'm going to be wrong about this.

We shall see.
 
skip100 said:
It says it’s a 250k prize fund, so 75k is 30%.
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That's embarrassing. Top heavy payouts do not serve our game's best interests, and WPA is the poster boy for top heavy payouts. This, in literary terms, is the reverse Robin Hood function. Taking from the poor (meaning those trying to eke out a living from pool) and giving to the rich (the top few players in the world who will contend for this title). Disgraceful in my estimation.
 
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sjm said:
Darn right, whether it's WPA money, Federation money, Government money or sponsor money, it's tough not to suspect that they've had the means all along to arrange these kinds of payouts and are only doing what they are doing because their hand is suddenly forced.

On top of this, there is every reason to fear that they're about to engage in monopolistic behavior to slow down their competition. I'll reserve judgment until that happens, but the rhetoric we're hearing says it's imminent.

Also, why on earth would an 8-ball event carry the biggest first prize of the year? I'd put 8-ball fourth, at best, in the pro pecking order, behind 9ball, 10ball, and one pocket, each of which offer more major pro events annually than 8-ball.

Wonder if this is a mirage like the 2023 World 10ball in which Kaci's $60,000 first prize made up 24% of the total prize fund and the top four combined made $140,000, or 56% of the total prize fund, while the rest of the field combined to get $110,000. At the world 10-ball, the top prize was window-dressing, obscuring the fact the prize fund was inconsistent with the winner's check and that the extremely top-heavy payout meant that few made much money in the event.

By comparison, Kaci's other major this year was the UK Open. He earned $30,000 of the $200,000 total payout and the top four walked away with $64,000, 32% of the total prize fund.

Of course, maybe I'm wrong here. A typical winner's check in our sport is about 15% of the prize fund, so if it turns out that the World 8-ball will have a prize fund of $500,000 I'm going to be wrong about this.

We shall see.
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i would think it's predator added money. agree on the payment structure, it's not a good incentive for american and asian players, and i think we'll miss out on some very good players because of it
 
skip100 said:
What a coincidence the WPA finds extra money for this event once it becomes clear Matchroom is a mortal threat to them.
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The only time World 8-Ball has had a consistent 1st place prize payout is the 9 years from 2013 to 2021, when it was $0. The bump from $60,000 to $75,000 --and the very fact the event is back--is good news
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