Unique material – experienced process
The strips obtained by molding have a profile with a more regular geometry. That is why we use this method instead of extrusion for the manufacture of the KLEMATCH® cushions.
The cushions’ profile regularity obtained by molding allows players a game with greater accuracy. A molded strip manufactured from the finest rubber mixtures like a KLEMATCH® cushion, allows players to combine performance and accuracy for optimum satisfaction with a maximum service life.
this page says a bit about types of rubber and the molding process.
Research the types and uses of rubber molding. Learn about neoprene, foam rubber, grommet edging, silicone rubber, and the other types of rubber molding.
www.iqsdirectory.com
here is some comparison between natural rubber and synthetic rubber
Whether you’re a company leader who’s choosing materials for your products or a consumer who’s making buying choices for your household, learning about your options is the first step.
www.yulex.com
===========
I cant' speak for this particular manufacturer, what we do know is that natural rubber has some different properties.
I worked in a plant that recovered printing rollers , I used to remove the old rubber and prep the core and put it into molds. It was pumped from a drum and cooked in an oven in the mold
the OEM rollers were, I believe, mainly natural rubber, one of the properties is that it is slightly porous which gives it a grippy feel, like an elastic band or a pencil erasor. The synthetic rubber is less prone to attack from the chemicals, solvents and is cheaper to produce as it can be molded easily. It's cheaper and breaks down less quickly from ozone.
natural rubber is from rubber trees, most others are from the petroleum industry.
what I have seen is that the friction difference is substantial , so if a roller is driving paper you want that grippyness, If it's slick like an O ring, it wont drive paper so well. the slickness of the synthetic rubber was a bit of a disadvantage but it can be molded as heat cures it once in a mold.
One example where the grippynes matters, is a folding machine where paper is being driven by rubber rollers. If they are slick rollers made from basically rubber like plastic, they loose their capability of having drive as soon as they get dusty.
I noticed that when looking at rubber for pool tables, there is a lot of offshore stuff made of synthetic rubber, cheap stuff from china , It can be molded cheaply. I believe that making pool table cushions by extrusion, like in the brunswick video requires a much higher cost equipment setup than a simple heat activated molding process,
this video shows the Brunswick Superspeed manufacturing process, you can see how costly and unique the equipment required ot do that is.
If you are choosing a manufacturer for pool table rubber I'd take into consideration their process and what type of rubber they are using, some companies may be secretive about their proprietary processes.
I have occasionally looked into having real rubber rollers made, where synthetics would not work well , an example is driving wood through a thickness planer. It needs that grip that natural rubber provides. a slick synthetic roller will get covered in wood dust and slip.
It is expensive they have long wait times and I once went to the plant and was interested about their process but they wouldn't let me see inside, protecting their proprietary process.
I wont speak for or against a particular manufacturer, I just think they type or rubber you choose and weather of not it is natural rubber is important. when I see its made by a molding process and not an extrusion machine, it lead me to think this is using a synthetic but that may not be completely justifiable. a chemical scientist that studies rubber types and has in depth knowledge of different manufacturing types would definitely be able to shed more light on why certain types of rubber are best for pool table cushions.
If you are ordering rubber through online dealers, id just be a bit cautions that the rubber you are getting is the type of rubber most suitable. If it's incredibly cheap it's likely made by a molding process and not natural rubber.
i suspect that the machinery that Brunswick is using , although very dated looking, may still be in use and without knowing more I'd be a bit more tempted to go with that type of rubber or a manufacturer using similar extrusion equipment. Natural rubber, not plastics.
Its a big subject, I dont know everything, I'd like to learn more. I believe the type of rubber and the process used may have a large effect on its bounce characteristics.
One thing Im curious about, how much is the type of rubber affecting the drive between ball and cushion, when you spin balls into a cushion? The cloth separates the two, does the grippyness matter ?
Knowledge is power. The more you know about your opponent AND the table, the better off you will be . I had a tourney I was in and was on the winners side. Playing well. New opponent, new table. Match at 1-1 and playing the rubber game. Opponent left me a bank shot,.... I make it I run out, miss and I sell out. I missed my bank,sold out and my opp ran the next 3 games to win the match. ONE mistake,.... and it was that bankshot. If I knew the table, the bank was dead and I would have been in front.
I have lost many matches in a tourney due to that ONE credible miss.
Do you need to know the table,.... you bet!
Unique material – experienced process
The strips obtained by molding have a profile with a more regular geometry. That is why we use this method instead of extrusion for the manufacture of the KLEMATCH® cushions.
The cushions’ profile regularity obtained by molding allows players a game with greater accuracy. A molded strip manufactured from the finest rubber mixtures like a KLEMATCH® cushion, allows players to combine performance and accuracy for optimum satisfaction with a maximum service life.
this page says a bit about types of rubber and the molding process.
Research the types and uses of rubber molding. Learn about neoprene, foam rubber, grommet edging, silicone rubber, and the other types of rubber molding.
www.iqsdirectory.com
here is some comparison between natural rubber and synthetic rubber
Whether you’re a company leader who’s choosing materials for your products or a consumer who’s making buying choices for your household, learning about your options is the first step.
www.yulex.com
===========
I cant' speak for this particular manufacturer, what we do know is that natural rubber has some different properties.
I worked in a plant that recovered printing rollers , I used to remove the old rubber and prep the core and put it into molds. It was pumped from a drum and cooked in an oven in the mold
the OEM rollers were, I believe, mainly natural rubber, one of the properties is that it is slightly porous which gives it a grippy feel, like an elastic band or a pencil erasor. The synthetic rubber is less prone to attack from the chemicals, solvents and is cheaper to produce as it can be molded easily. It's cheaper and breaks down less quickly from ozone.
natural rubber is from rubber trees, most others are from the petroleum industry.
what I have seen is that the friction difference is substantial , so if a roller is driving paper you want that grippyness, If it's slick like an O ring, it wont drive paper so well. the slickness of the synthetic rubber was a bit of a disadvantage but it can be molded as heat cures it once in a mold.
One example where the grippynes matters, is a folding machine where paper is being driven by rubber rollers. If they are slick rollers made from basically rubber like plastic, they loose their capability of having drive as soon as they get dusty.
I noticed that when looking at rubber for pool tables, there is a lot of offshore stuff made of synthetic rubber, cheap stuff from china , It can be molded cheaply. I believe that making pool table cushions by extrusion, like in the brunswick video requires a much higher cost equipment setup than a simple heat activated molding process,
this video shows the Brunswick Superspeed manufacturing process, you can see how costly and unique the equipment required ot do that is.
If you are choosing a manufacturer for pool table rubber I'd take into consideration their process and what type of rubber they are using, some companies may be secretive about their proprietary processes.
I have occasionally looked into having real rubber rollers made, where synthetics would not work well , an example is driving wood through a thickness planer. It needs that grip that natural rubber provides. a slick synthetic roller will get covered in wood dust and slip.
It is expensive they have long wait times and I once went to the plant and was interested about their process but they wouldn't let me see inside, protecting their proprietary process.
I wont speak for or against a particular manufacturer, I just think they type or rubber you choose and weather of not it is natural rubber is important. when I see its made by a molding process and not an extrusion machine, it lead me to think this is using a synthetic but that may not be completely justifiable. a chemical scientist that studies rubber types and has in depth knowledge of different manufacturing types would definitely be able to shed more light on why certain types of rubber are best for pool table cushions.
If you are ordering rubber through online dealers, id just be a bit cautions that the rubber you are getting is the type of rubber most suitable. If it's incredibly cheap it's likely made by a molding process and not natural rubber.
i suspect that the machinery that Brunswick is using , although very dated looking, may still be in use and without knowing more I'd be a bit more tempted to go with that type of rubber or a manufacturer using similar extrusion equipment. Natural rubber, not plastics.
Its a big subject, I dont know everything, I'd like to learn more. I believe the type of rubber and the process used may have a large effect on its bounce characteristics.
One thing Im curious about, how much is the type of rubber affecting the drive between ball and cushion, when you spin balls into a cushion? The cloth separates the two, does the grippyness matter ?
Lot of guess work in your statements, lot of opinions too.
Here's a question for you to figure out. What is the difference between pool cushions and 3 Cushion billiards cushions? Why is the rubber compound different between the two cushions, even though both are made in a K55 profile?
Unique material – experienced process
The strips obtained by molding have a profile with a more regular geometry. That is why we use this method instead of extrusion for the manufacture of the KLEMATCH® cushions.
The cushions’ profile regularity obtained by molding allows players a game with greater accuracy. A molded strip manufactured from the finest rubber mixtures like a KLEMATCH® cushion, allows players to combine performance and accuracy for optimum satisfaction with a maximum service life.
this page says a bit about types of rubber and the molding process.
Research the types and uses of rubber molding. Learn about neoprene, foam rubber, grommet edging, silicone rubber, and the other types of rubber molding.
www.iqsdirectory.com
here is some comparison between natural rubber and synthetic rubber
Whether you’re a company leader who’s choosing materials for your products or a consumer who’s making buying choices for your household, learning about your options is the first step.
www.yulex.com
===========
I cant' speak for this particular manufacturer, what we do know is that natural rubber has some different properties.
I worked in a plant that recovered printing rollers , I used to remove the old rubber and prep the core and put it into molds. It was pumped from a drum and cooked in an oven in the mold
the OEM rollers were, I believe, mainly natural rubber, one of the properties is that it is slightly porous which gives it a grippy feel, like an elastic band or a pencil erasor. The synthetic rubber is less prone to attack from the chemicals, solvents and is cheaper to produce as it can be molded easily. It's cheaper and breaks down less quickly from ozone.
natural rubber is from rubber trees, most others are from the petroleum industry.
what I have seen is that the friction difference is substantial , so if a roller is driving paper you want that grippyness, If it's slick like an O ring, it wont drive paper so well. the slickness of the synthetic rubber was a bit of a disadvantage but it can be molded as heat cures it once in a mold.
One example where the grippynes matters, is a folding machine where paper is being driven by rubber rollers. If they are slick rollers made from basically rubber like plastic, they loose their capability of having drive as soon as they get dusty.
I noticed that when looking at rubber for pool tables, there is a lot of offshore stuff made of synthetic rubber, cheap stuff from china , It can be molded cheaply. I believe that making pool table cushions by extrusion, like in the brunswick video requires a much higher cost equipment setup than a simple heat activated molding process,
this video shows the Brunswick Superspeed manufacturing process, you can see how costly and unique the equipment required ot do that is.
If you are choosing a manufacturer for pool table rubber I'd take into consideration their process and what type of rubber they are using, some companies may be secretive about their proprietary processes.
I have occasionally looked into having real rubber rollers made, where synthetics would not work well , an example is driving wood through a thickness planer. It needs that grip that natural rubber provides. a slick synthetic roller will get covered in wood dust and slip.
It is expensive they have long wait times and I once went to the plant and was interested about their process but they wouldn't let me see inside, protecting their proprietary process.
I wont speak for or against a particular manufacturer, I just think they type or rubber you choose and weather of not it is natural rubber is important. when I see its made by a molding process and not an extrusion machine, it lead me to think this is using a synthetic but that may not be completely justifiable. a chemical scientist that studies rubber types and has in depth knowledge of different manufacturing types would definitely be able to shed more light on why certain types of rubber are best for pool table cushions.
If you are ordering rubber through online dealers, id just be a bit cautions that the rubber you are getting is the type of rubber most suitable. If it's incredibly cheap it's likely made by a molding process and not natural rubber.
i suspect that the machinery that Brunswick is using , although very dated looking, may still be in use and without knowing more I'd be a bit more tempted to go with that type of rubber or a manufacturer using similar extrusion equipment. Natural rubber, not plastics.
Its a big subject, I dont know everything, I'd like to learn more. I believe the type of rubber and the process used may have a large effect on its bounce characteristics.
One thing Im curious about, how much is the type of rubber affecting the drive between ball and cushion, when you spin balls into a cushion? The cloth separates the two, does the grippyness matter ?
Lot of guess work in your statements, lot of opinions too.
Here's a question for you to figure out. What is the difference between pool cushions and 3 Cushion billiards cushions? Why is the rubber compound different between the two cushions, even though both are made in a K55 profile?
Yeah, I know what you mean! You would rather listen to someone that don't know shit, than someone that KNOWS his shit! The real problem is, you guys can't stand being corrected, proven wrong, or questioned to see if you know enough to back up your claims!
Don't blame me for YOU not knowing shit, that's YOUR problem, not mine!!!
You joined AZB 2 months ago, and come here talking about shit you know nothing about, like you KNOW something, well, I'm just keeping it real buddy, I'd hate to have someone take your advice when it comes to tables OR cushions!! That's why you can't answer my simple questions!!! You're just butt hurt because I kind of called you out on your BS advice you're giving!!
I've been a table mechanic on AZB for 16 years, and have been working as a Professional pool table mechanic for 40+ years, I CAN call BS when I see it!!
You joined AZB 2 months ago, and come here talking about shit you know nothing about, like you KNOW something, well, I'm just keeping it real buddy, I'd hate to have someone take your advice when it comes to tables OR cushions!! That's why you can't answer my simple questions!!! You're just butt hurt because I kind of called you out on your BS advice you're giving!!
I've been a table mechanic on AZB for 16 years, and have been working as a Professional pool table mechanic for 40+ years, I CAN call BS when I see it!!
Let's not be silly. I like Diamond tables. If I had a place for one, I'd buy one for my home. But, they don't bank on system. I've played on dozens, if not hundreds of different Diamond tables and a three rail reference shot never goes through the second diamond on the long rail. It is always close to the first diamond and flirts with the side pocket. I think most players have adapted to short banking Diamonds, which is fine, because on balance they are the best tables we have to play on, but lets not pretend they play on system.
If a table plays weird during a tournament does it really matter? Both players have to deal with whatever the table throws at them, nobody has an advantage in a situation like this so why the big deal?? You don't enter a tournament to beat the table, just the other player.
I agree with you No tables play the same. I never play on my home table the day of a tournament or leagues for this reason! I dont want to get dialed in on my table and then go play in a situation that is totally different. You have to adjust to your equipment. That’s part of being a good player
I agree with you No tables play the same. I never play on my home table the day of a tournament or leagues for this reason! I domt want to get dialed in my table and then go play in a situation that is totally different. You have to adjust to your equipment. That’s part of being a good player
In terms of absolutes, the odds of two tables side by side being identical are nearly impossible. However if we're going to pretend that a table manufacturer is the bestest evar, then they need to be judged by consistency. Diamond has, for the most part, transcended criticism over their inability to produce a product that banks on geometry. If they did out of the gate, and say Rasson had this flaw. Then the majority here would be crucifying the foreign invader. However the good olde "American Made" sticker has allowed them to redefine what consistency should be measured against. Good on them...
A good player should be able to adjust, yes. The best players don't because they have the luxury of consistently playing on top quality equipment under the best conditions. Those who think an ability to adapt is somehow a better attribute then being able to become dialed in to specific competitive conditions, are fooling themselves.
You adjust to the equipment or you walk away. There was a new "pool hall" in my area, took the place of a pretty fair seafood joint best I recall. It was a loss, I did eat at the seafood restaurant a few times a year.
Tuned to short banking Diamonds, the tables in the hall banked another six inches shorter on a simple crossover bank like shown in this thread. Yet another entrepreneur who thought they could buy very cheap home furniture style tables and open a pool hall. I couldn't see much of anything good coming of adjusting to these tables plus the counterman had volunteered to hit a few balls with me and the whole counter moved to the rail to watch.
No intention of ever playing here again, definitely not gambling, still I might bump into these railbirds somewhere else and it never pays to give up information. With no money on the line I continued hammering balls into the rails for about an hour or two until we quit. I did mentally call where it would hit on the rail before shooting.
I could have adapted to these noname, probably made by a chinese mill, tables but why? I'm not ever playing on these tables again. Seemed like the kind of thing alibaba advertises then only has made on demand. They advertise things for years and never have one available for lack of demand.
Diamond followed the same MO as many foreign importers and invaders. A low price for an inferior product. The Diamonds were much cheaper for a usable product though, and they were made in the USA which is always a selling point. Diamond got enough market share that we had to learn to play on them. Now both price and quality have increased like many an import, think cars. Many today don't remember that japanese cars were pure crap when they came over. They were cheap junk but they got you where you were going for a few years before they fell apart. When US production quality fell the japanese saw a new window of opportunity and built quality cars at a reasonable price. Then prices rose after market share was established.
We have to face facts, the chinese with less than a dollar an hour labor can build quality tables cheaper than we can in the US if they choose to. When costs and benefits are added in, US manufacturing starts at about $35 an hour and much of it is between$50 and $75 and hour, some much more.
We often can't compete with foreign manufacturing and the stopping points are primarily things we aren't willing to give up. Anybody willing to work for a buck-twenty-five again?
I would like to see Diamond make a radical change in their cushions. Simple fact, most would be very upset if they did! People aren't used to tables that bank and kick like they should and would be mightily upset if they did. I read a day or two ago about tables that banked long and picked up speed off of the rails. If someone ever figured out how to get more out of a reaction than we put into the action it would be worth trillions!
Hu
You adjust to the equipment or you walk away. There was a new "pool hall" in my area, took the place of a pretty fair seafood joint best I recall. It was a loss, I did eat at the seafood restaurant a few times a year.
Tuned to short banking Diamonds, the tables in the hall banked another six inches shorter on a simple crossover bank like shown in this thread. Yet another entrepreneur who thought they could buy very cheap home furniture style tables and open a pool hall. I couldn't see much of anything good coming of adjusting to these tables plus the counterman had volunteered to hit a few balls with me and the whole counter moved to the rail to watch.
No intention of ever playing here again, definitely not gambling, still I might bump into these railbirds somewhere else and it never pays to give up information. With no money on the line I continued hammering balls into the rails for about an hour or two until we quit. I did mentally call where it would hit on the rail before shooting.
I could have adapted to these noname, probably made by a chinese mill, tables but why? I'm not ever playing on these tables again. Seemed like the kind of thing alibaba advertises then only has made on demand. They advertise things for years and never have one available for lack of demand.
Diamond followed the same MO as many foreign importers and invaders. A low price for an inferior product. The Diamonds were much cheaper for a usable product though, and they were made in the USA which is always a selling point. Diamond got enough market share that we had to learn to play on them. Now both price and quality have increased like many an import, think cars. Many today don't remember that japanese cars were pure crap when they came over. They were cheap junk but they got you where you were going for a few years before they fell apart. When US production quality fell the japanese saw a new window of opportunity and built quality cars at a reasonable price. Then prices rose after market share was established.
We have to face facts, the chinese with less than a dollar an hour labor can build quality tables cheaper than we can in the US if they choose to. When costs and benefits are added in, US manufacturing starts at about $35 an hour and much of it is between$50 and $75 and hour, some much more.
We often can't compete with foreign manufacturing and the stopping points are primarily things we aren't willing to give up. Anybody willing to work for a buck-twenty-five again?
I would like to see Diamond make a radical change in their cushions. Simple fact, most would be very upset if they did! People aren't used to tables that bank and kick like they should and would be mightily upset if they did. I read a day or two ago about tables that banked long and picked up speed off of the rails. If someone ever figured out how to get more out of a reaction than we put into the action it would be worth trillions!
Hu
I doubt any player in the world would complain if Diamond changed their cushion design to perform exactly like a GC. When the top pros play on the All Japan Championship (still played on GC) they play jam up. The current pro event right now is on the Predator table. On the stream, it looks like the cushions are playing great, and the players are playing great. (Yes, I know there were early issues with these tables 2 years ago that were transport and tipping on their side related.)
Diamonds catch phrase is/was “designed by players for players”. I can’t believe “players” let these cushions out the door 30 years ago, or today.
When Diamond improved the black marks on the balls everyone was happy. When Diamond changed from red to blue everyone was happy (except for some red owners who felt slighted, and that’s understandable). If Diamond today copies the GC design exactly, I again think the vast majority of players would welcome the change.
Looking back,.... I can't remember one Diamond table that had a dead rail. I do remember some playing short, and one that was almost a full diamond short. I do remember two Valley tables with dead rail(s).
One Valley was in a Bar that was heated by a large woodstove. The long rail closest to the stove was so dry it never banked right.
The other Valley table was a spare table that APA dragged out to allow more continuous play at LTC's. Every rail was dead on this table. I don't know where/what happened to this table, but it was as if the CB was a rock thrown at a wall. Banking/kicking was impossible to get any position on that table.
I also bought some Chinese made tires some yrs ago.
They were round, quiet, and very smooth on the road. Trouble was they handled like a circus wagon! I didn't wait for them to wear out and replaced them after just a few months of use.
I'm sticking with weather or QC as the culprit based on past experiences.
My first pool table when I was a kid was a plywood table from Sears. Then we got a used Gold Crown I played on until I left for college. 10 Years ago I bought a house with a valley in it and played on it up until I got a brand new 7ft blue label this summer.
I can't remember playing on any of these tables and not having fun. BTW, the blue label is by far the nicest, best built table I have owned...even nicer than the Sears special, if you can believe it.
www.yulex.com
