How do these diamond tables play so badly? vid

iusedtoberich said:
I have experience with this. At my home room, Drexeline Billiards in PA (now closed unfortunately due to the whole shopping center being torn down last year), we had 20 new GC4's purchased in 2001 or 2002. They all played great, the whole time until the room closed in 2022. Before that, the room was open since 1989 with older GC 1's and 2's, that also played great. I played in this room daily for 20 some years, and knew all the tables very well.

The room always had 2 triple shimmed tables for one pocket, about 8 double shimmed tables for 9 ball players, and the rest were the factory buckets for the bangers in the back of the room. All the tables played great.

In about 2015, the owner wanted to make the one pocket tables even nicer for us. Tons of one pocket played in the room. He had the 2 triple shimmed tables reworked with new cushions and extended rails, so the extra shims would be gone. He had 4 total tables reworked this way, rather than the 2 prior triple shimmed. The mechanic used the Diamond Black cushions. (To add, the superspeed cushions were still playing like the day they were new, they were not bad, the owner just wanted to give us a "no-shim" table)

The tables were ruined. They banked much springier than all the other tables in the room that still had the original super speed cushions. They were NOT as fast as springy as the same cushions on the 7' Diamond Blue tables. They were NOT as short as the same cushions on the 7' Blue Diamonds. But they were noticeably springier compared to the SuperSpeed.

Yes, we still played one pocket on these tables. Yes, we still gambled our brains out and had a nice time. But the wrong cushions were installed. SuperSpeed would have been much better.

IMO:)
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Exactly!
 
TrxR said:
Yes and the QC and fit and finish is worse. I think that and the lack of pocket options is why their sales went down .
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Their fit and finish has sucked for decades. I think their sales went down because they completely abandoned pro pool sponsorship.

I agree with others Diamond tables are the best built, best fit and finish, best quality from table to table. Just the way they play off the cushion is off. If they fixed that, I'd even praise them every chance:)
 
Dunnn51 said:
Olhausen was a popular recreation table for the masses. They went OOB some yrs ago.
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They didn’t go out of business. They just bailed out of Cali for Portland Tn just like everybody from there (at least it feels that way). I had an Olhausen and it was a very well built table. I sold it when I restored my Centennial.
 
TrxR said:
Yes and the QC and fit and finish is worse. I think that and the lack of pocket options is why their sales went down .
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I think the new design did not help. There are 2 pocket options
 
realkingcobra said:
Artemis cushions don't belong on a pool table in my opinion, because they were designed for straight rail billiards tables, and have to much cushion nose contact with the balls, therefore transfer to much friction to the balls by way of spin and angle changes.
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I sure wish someone would have told me this when I had my GCI rails modified in 2013, mat that time everyone said I should use Artemis then it seemed about 1 year later everyone started using Superspeeds. My GC plays nice, doesn't bank noticeably short, and has good speed, am I better off swapping to Superspeeds when I recover it shortly or should I stick with Artemis?? You know, dont fix it if it aint broken?
 
fastone371 said:
I sure wish someone would have told me this when I had my GCI rails modified in 2013, mat that time everyone said I should use Artemis then it seemed about 1 year later everyone started using Superspeeds. My GC plays nice, doesn't bank noticeably short, and has good speed, am I better off swapping to Superspeeds when I recover it shortly or should I stick with Artemis?? You know, dont fix it if it aint broken?
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That's the bandwagon effect. Everyone at the time wanted their GC's "Diamonized". Glen was a big part of the bandwagon as I recall. Then everyone changed tune and said only Superspeeds belong on GC's.

Its sort of the same thing still happening now with the Blue label diamonds.
 
fastone371 said:
I sure wish someone would have told me this when I had my GCI rails modified in 2013, mat that time everyone said I should use Artemis then it seemed about 1 year later everyone started using Superspeeds. My GC plays nice, doesn't bank noticeably short, and has good speed, am I better off swapping to Superspeeds when I recover it shortly or should I stick with Artemis?? You know, dont fix it if it aint broken?
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If you like the way it plays, why bother.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I have experience with this. At my home room, Drexeline Billiards in PA (now closed unfortunately due to the whole shopping center being torn down last year), we had 20 new GC4's purchased in 2001 or 2002. They all played great, the whole time until the room closed in 2022. Before that, the room was open since 1989 with older GC 1's and 2's, that also played great. I played in this room daily for 20 some years, and knew all the tables very well.

The room always had 2 triple shimmed tables for one pocket, about 8 double shimmed tables for 9 ball players, and the rest were the factory buckets for the bangers in the back of the room. All the tables played great.

In about 2015, the owner wanted to make the one pocket tables even nicer for us. Tons of one pocket played in the room. He had the 2 triple shimmed tables reworked with new cushions and extended rails, so the extra shims would be gone. He had 4 total tables reworked this way, rather than the 2 prior triple shimmed. The mechanic used the Diamond Black cushions. (To add, the superspeed cushions were still playing like the day they were new, they were not bad, the owner just wanted to give us a "no-shim" table)

The tables were ruined. They banked much springier than all the other tables in the room that still had the original super speed cushions. They were NOT as fast as springy as the same cushions on the 7' Diamond Blue tables. They were NOT as short as the same cushions on the 7' Blue Diamonds. But they were noticeably springier compared to the SuperSpeed.

Yes, we still played one pocket on these tables. Yes, we still gambled our brains out and had a nice time. But the wrong cushions were installed. SuperSpeed would have been much better.

IMO:)
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So, your 435 Fargo Rate makes you an expert on how a table should play?🤣😅😂🤣😅😂
 
fastone371 said:
I sure wish someone would have told me this when I had my GCI rails modified in 2013, mat that time everyone said I should use Artemis then it seemed about 1 year later everyone started using Superspeeds. My GC plays nice, doesn't bank noticeably short, and has good speed, am I better off swapping to Superspeeds when I recover it shortly or should I stick with Artemis?? You know, dont fix it if it aint broken?
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RKC can better speak to this but the Rails need to be modified to fit Artemis cushions. If that didn’t happen then your table can’t possibly be playing correctly. Going back probably will normalize the table.
 
I had Artemis cushions installed on my Centennial. But, to get it to play correctly, Mark Gregory changed the subrail angle. It plays sweet. FTR, Mark wanted to install Super Speeds. He did an excellent job on my rails. If Diamond had adopted the dimensions that Mark used on my table, this convo wouldn’t be occurring.

Diamond makes the best built table period. They just bank short. The dirtier the cloth, the shorter the bank angle.
 
chevybob20 said:
I had Artemis cushions installed on my Centennial. But, to get it to play correctly, Mark Gregory changed the subrail angle. It plays sweet. FTR, Mark wanted to install Super Speeds. He did an excellent job on my rails. If Diamond had adopted the dimensions that Mark used on my table, this convo wouldn’t be occurring.

Diamond makes the best built table period. They just bank short. The dirtier the cloth, the shorter the bank angle.
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See, that’s the difference between Mark and Glen. Mark knows they are still off, and tries to improve them further. Glen won’t admit it, and instead berates anyone who does. That’s the whole reason Mark left this site.
 
iusedtoberich said:
See, that’s the difference between Mark and Glen. Mark knows they are still off, and tries to improve them further. Glen won’t admit it, and instead berates anyone who does. That’s the whole reason Mark left this site.
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Are you sure about that? Willing to back your statement up with a sizable bet? I guarantee you, Mark don't do anything differently installing the Artemis cushions than I do! Who do you think had at least a 100 conversations about installing the Artemis cushions, with OUR specs???

Mark and I still talk, and get along great, so do me a favor, don't bring Mark into your conversations about rails when you don't know shit about Mark and I, got it!!!
 
iusedtoberich said:
See, that’s the difference between Mark and Glen. Mark knows they are still off, and tries to improve them further. Glen won’t admit it, and instead berates anyone who does. That’s the whole reason Mark left this site.
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I sure had interesting conversations with Mark.
He sure made very accurate predictions about Artemis's playability as the cloth breaks-in.
And why old GC's when done right , are players' delight when the cloth breaks in.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I sure had interesting conversations with Mark.
He sure made very accurate predictions about Artemis's playability as the cloth breaks-in.
And why old GC's when done right , are players' delight when the cloth breaks in.
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You two must be desperate to be bringing Mark's name up in this conversation🤣😅😂I'll have to tell Mark about this😂😅🤣
 
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