Shane says, "9 ball is too easy"

[DaWizard]

Here's my favorite "new" game: 15 balls, break hard, run any 6 balls in any order, and then run the remaining 9 balls in numerical order, with the final ball serving as the winning "9" ball.

I think we need a seperate category for variations! Then we (I mainly) don't bug other people.

 

[jalapus logan]

Just do a DCC thang...but all in one set. Race to whatever, but mix it up with banks, onepocket, then 9 ball each. Crazy huh? Actually kinda sounds fun now that I think more about it...

 

[NathanDetroit]

I think it would be interesting to see how Team USA would do against Team Europe in bar table 8 ball on a Valley! I think we'd stand a decent chance- Shane and Corey are two of the top bar table 8 ball players in the world. Americans play so much more bar table 8 ball- perhaps that would level the playing field.

Team Europe would start with Chris Melling, Gareth Potts and Mock Hill.

 

[OverTheNut]

Upon pocketing the 10, if the cue ball ends up in the kitchen, the winner breaks from the cue ball's position. If the cue ball doesn't end up in the kitchen, the loser breaks from anywhere in the kitchen.

What a great variation that would be. Would work for 8, 9 or 10 ball.
Sure - the pros would get the cue ball in the kitchen pretty much every time but it would always be in a slightly different position.
Has this ever been tried?

 

[Colonel]

Sorry Colonel I just thought you saying this....."who really cares what Shane says".
That statement felt like your opinion.

That certainly was the question that I asked. You say it “felt like my opinion”. Perhaps what you felt was the disdain in my response as it WAS dripping with it.

Why? The inane comments in the interview. 9 ball IS easy for top flight players, but to suggest that 8 ball on a big track isn’t just as easy for these players is comical. What did he say? “You have to out think your opponent, it’s like chess”. No it’s not, that’s one pocket, not 8 ball, which is where my disdain lies.

Johnston City started its 1st year as a 1 pocket only event that expanded as a multi game event and all around championship. The DCC is a multi game event with an all around championship. 8 ball has never been a part of those events nor a game taken seriously by any real caliber players, unless it was a momentary diversion where there was money to be made in a given moment. Then when that money was made they returned to the games “players” spend their time with, 14:1, 1 pocket, Banks, 9 and 10 ball. That’s the way it’s always been, now that’s an opinion derived from a lifetime of observation.

 

[trob]

You mean like the vaunted Chinese 8b and snooker?? Both games allow slop and in snooker they allow chickenshit no-rail safeties. My point is all pool/snooker games have a luck element. Trying to remove it all is pointless and pretty much impossible.

All sports have a luck factor for sure

 

[smiling_Hans]

8 ball has never been a part of those events nor a game taken seriously by any real caliber players, unless it was a momentary diversion where there was money to be made in a given moment. Then when that money was made they returned to the games “players” spend their time with, 14:1, 1 pocket, Banks, 9 and 10 ball. That’s the way it’s always been, now that’s an opinion derived from a lifetime of observation.

I agree with most of what you are saying except 1pocket and Banks are gimmick games. If anything it shouldn't be taken seriously as the aforementioned game. It is a disrespect to the history of billiards to even mention 1pocket and Banks in the same breath as 8ball, 9ball and 14.1.

These games exist for degenerates to gamble and not hurt one another's feelings by playing 8ball or 9ball. You play 1pocket and banks with your friends because you can graciously lose to one another, in a game we hardly play (1pocket/Banks).

I rather play a good friend of 1pocket and banks and lose or beat him. Then we laugh about it because we don't really play these games. Versus playing him 8ball or 9ball where the loser's feelings may be hurt. This is why one pocket and banks exist. It is the ultimate friendly game even with money involved.

 

[Positively Ralf]

He may not love it but he can flat play it. I agree with Stu on pros playing 8b on 9fts, its just too easy for them. Especially Bca/WPA rules, if they'd play take-what-u-make its a little harder but not a ton.

Take what you make and scratches are ball in hand in the kitchen. 99% of all bars I've ever played 8 ball use those rules and quite frankly, it's the main rules everyone who has never picked up a cue stick plays with.

 

[Mich]

Since Matchroom changed the break rule circa August 2022, Shane has come up empty at the 9ball majors. 9ball has done a great job of sorting out who the truly elite are in our sport. That's likely to continue.

As we saw at the World 8-ball, 8ball on the big tables is boring to watch and its, basically, a breaking contest for the most elite players, as the run outs are so easy by world class standards. Shane probably has the best 8ball break in the world, and he rode it to victory. It was reminiscent of the days when Shane dominated with his 9ball break, but today's version of 9ball (tight pockets, tough breaking rules) require a far more balanced skill set than that needed ten years ago.

Shane wants to return to a world in which his break will give him a gigantic edge over his opponents. Can't say I blame him, but it's big table 8ball that's too easy. 8ball, however, an interesting game on a bar box.

Good points. But I feel the same about 9Ball -it's getting boring to watch because with the cut break the layouts seem similar and the run outs not really challenging. I watched an old school match the other day from the 90's and the layouts were different on almost every break. Also, 9Ball was supposed to save pool 30 years ago..........Finally, I still probably like 14.1 when it's played at the highest level. I think this is the problem. Tennis used to played on different surfaces requiring different skills, now it's all the same with Big Racquets and all the finesse and flair are gone. Perhaps we need more variety of BIG tournaments over the course of the year - 1 Pocket, 8 and 9 Ball and 14.1 instead of one discipline. But MR pretty much is the Sport right now and what they say goes. Frankly, if they can keep supporting and sponsoring pool, I will just continue to support them.

 

[jokrswylde]

That certainly was the question that I asked. You say it “felt like my opinion”. Perhaps what you felt was the disdain in my response as it WAS dripping with it.

Why? The inane comments in the interview. 9 ball IS easy for top flight players, but to suggest that 8 ball on a big track isn’t just as easy for these players is comical. What did he say? “You have to out think your opponent, it’s like chess”. No it’s not, that’s one pocket, not 8 ball, which is where my disdain lies.

Johnston City started its 1st year as a 1 pocket only event that expanded as a multi game event and all around championship. The DCC is a multi game event with an all around championship. 8 ball has never been a part of those events nor a game taken seriously by any real caliber players, unless it was a momentary diversion where there was money to be made in a given moment. Then when that money was made they returned to the games “players” spend their time with, 14:1, 1 pocket, Banks, 9 and 10 ball. That’s the way it’s always been, now that’s an opinion derived from a lifetime of observation.

No disrespect intended here, but you are directly challenging and disagreeing with quite possibly the best pool player of his generation. A 5 time us open champion, a world 8 and 9 ball champion, along with enough other titles to fill a dump truck. While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, may I ask is it an expert opinion, or just a pool fans opinion. Thanks.

 

[Island Drive]

90% of the luck in 9 ball is lucky safes. Apply the Grady rule of giving the incoming player the option of making his opponent shoot again after a non-called safe, and nearly all of the luck would disappear, especially below the pro level.

Here's my favorite "new" game: 15 balls, break hard, run any 6 balls in any order, and then run the remaining 9 balls in numerical order, with the final ball serving as the winning "9" ball. This could be any ball between the 9 and the 15. As in all traditional games, if you make a ball on the break you get the first shot after that, so if (say) you make 2 balls on the break, you only need to shoot 4 balls in any order before reaching the rotation stage.

The advantage over traditional 9 ball is that there's more traffic to navigate, and more choices to make, but then if (say) the 12 ball winds up near a pocket after the break, then by clearing the 13-14-15 balls off the table following the break, you may be able to set yourself up for a quick win once the game gets to its rotation stage. I invented this game at the Purdue University pool room 46 years ago, when 9 ball wasn't allowed there, and within a few days I found it was a much more popular game than 8 ball, at least for the week I was staying at Purdue.

I personally would like to see each player allowed ''one'' roll out per rack, that way you'd see very aggressive, attacking play.

Then just do sets best of 3 or best of 5, single elimination.
This way pros that got knocked out, would NOT have to pay weekend room fees/meals etc at the casino rates.
.

 

[Quesports]

Same in VA...I can only recall one place that brought diamond bar boxes in.

Hallelujah! Ban the bar boxes to bars were they came from in the beginning!

 

[sjm]

Good points. But I feel the same about 9Ball -it's getting boring to watch because with the cut break the layouts seem similar and the run outs not really challenging. I watched an old school match the other day from the 90's and the layouts were different on almost every break. Also, 9Ball was supposed to save pool 30 years ago..........Finally, I still probably like 14.1 when it's played at the highest level. I think this is the problem. Tennis used to played on different surfaces requiring different skills, now it's all the same with Big Racquets and all the finesse and flair are gone. Perhaps we need more variety of BIG tournaments over the course of the year - 1 Pocket, 8 and 9 Ball and 14.1 instead of one discipline. But MR pretty much is the Sport right now and what they say goes. Frankly, if they can keep supporting and sponsoring pool, I will just continue to support them.

I'm with you. the fringe games still have their charm and there is room on the pool calendar for all of them, but nine ball is the main event these days.

 

[Swighey]

Promoting pro 8 ball in the US seems like a no brainer. Walk into any bar and a lot of pool rooms, what are people playing? English 8 ball in the US could work really well. It's close enough to the game people know but it's quick and somewhat immune to ridiculous house rules that plague American 8 ball.

English pool is even more ridiculous for house rules than American 8 Ball. This might change now that English 8 Ball on TV is mostly played to a ruleset that makes sense and is internally consistent and coherent - but much league pool in the UK is played according to various versions of "old rules", occasionally with one or two new rules as add-ons.

 

[bbb]

My point is all pool/snooker games have a luck element

Trying to remove it all is pointless and pretty much impossible.

not much luck in bank pool

 

[sjm]

I have to point out, however, I don't believe Shane's break is why he won the WC8. His pattern mapping was far better than his fellow elite players.

Agree to disagree. In fact, eight ball, more than any other game played on a pool table, allows those who play less than optimal patterns to get away with it. No, SVB is not the best 8-ball pattern player, and he doesn't need to be to win.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I think we are throwing a lot of prescriptions at the patient before we are diagnosing the problem. Who is the patient? In general, the TV and live audience folks who have money.

What are their needs? What does the audience want? I'll start:
Team affiliation
Variety of formats
Short intense challenges
Good camera coverage
Knowledgeable commentators
Involved audiences
...Any suggestions?

MR is doing a fine job of identifying and responding to the audience needs.

 

[justnum]

Usually when men get older they get less excited by how easy something is.

Next SVB can say he practices his stroke mentally, trying to figure out the best break for him.

Not everyone strokes the same number of times and gets the desired outcome. What are good or bad tips on how to build stroke strength? Bad ones are worth trying for giggles.

Should I grip it or choke it? How about with my smooth practice strokes should I think about hitting the ball or making the pocket or how much energy do my hands need to have?

SVB says nine is easy, let him try with one hand one eye and a jittery stroke from medical conditions.

USA needs a hero to fight. Not some crybaby who complains the game is too easy.

 

[Quesports]

When I watch YouTube videos of Shane, Ralf Soquet, Darrin Appleton or any top 8 ball players I try to guess the sequence they might play to run the table.

I am almost always incorrect and rarely do they shoot the easiest ball in first. Watching closely how they move the cue ball and stay on the correct line from shot to shot is fascinating to me.

It will never be the primary game for tv but I enjoy watching eight ball much more than nine ball. JMO!

 

[smiling_Hans]

When I watch YouTube videos of Shane, Ralf Soquet, Darrin Appleton or any top 8 ball players I try to guess the sequence they might play to run the table.

I am almost always incorrect and rarely do they shoot the easiest ball in first. Watching closely how they move the cue ball and stay on the correct line from shot to shot is fascinating to me.

It will never be the primary game for tv but I enjoy watching eight ball much more than nine ball. JMO!

It’s not them but myself included. Anybody that plays 8ball does this. You don’t have to shoot the easiest ball. They are there for defensive purposes sometimes.

I always shoot the hardest shot unless that easy shot leads to an out it otherwise it stays where it is in the meantime.

It’s a game of wit and cleverness. A player’s personality does shine from this game. It’s not your robotic and execute the shot kind of game.