I can see Brett doing that on a barbox
APA, FARGO and the death of 8 ball.....
- Thread starter HitHrdNDraw
- Start date
I just watched this "match." Good strategy by the winning team to post a decent SL2. He,(the SL9) caved under the pressure worse than the SL2 did.
The SL9 dude had a hella long bridge. made mistakes on position, safeties, and some strategy.
Was painful to watch.
I joined teams in two different leagues and both Captains said this to me.
I still played to win and got penalized for my effort. Captain wouldn't play me, or he would stick me up against a SL3 that plays wikked safeties, so It was "hide and seek" pool instead of "run 'n gun."
Hey, i like a good safety as well as the next, but to intentionally do it instead of taking an open shot is a different story.
I wound up quitting both teams,(who wants to put up with that BS!)
There's incentive to cheat in any system, even no system. Local oversight is not necessarily bad, but it does require someone who is both knowledgeable and conscientious. And globally linked data is not necessarily a good thing if you're talking about cheating (which you are).
Quite a few of those that engage in sandbagging don't go to Regionals and Vegas where they would get caught. If caught they might have to forfeit or at the very least have their handicap go up possibly to a 7 in APA and 8 or above in the other leagues. Their handicap would then be locked so they would never go below that handicap no matter how much they lost back in their home room.
When I co-captained a team there was a simple formula for team building. For APA, it was 8 player team and the cap was 23 skill level. So, we would try to build or keep a team like this:
1- SL8 or 9
2- SL5 to 6
2- SL4 to 5
3- SL2 to 3
The points games 2/3 of the time came down to a SL2-3 playing the last match for the team to win .
Usually worked out pretty good using 22-23 total SL for the 5 matches.
That is the only thing I really miss about league play; the look on a SL2 or 3 when THEY won for the team win.
With the structure above, we beat teams with 3 SL5's or 3 SL6's 75% of the time.
Of course the SL9, the Captain, and myself were always coaching the 2-3's to get better.
Yup it was a diamond barbox.
Al
“Always coaching,” you said it all right there.. I prefer to play pool.
When I hear this, I wonder what the point of the sandbagging would be? What are they saving themselves for? If they're worried they're gonna get caught and be locked higher, what would the purpose be of continued sandbagging?
I would have to think the incentive is to be able to have an advantage when one needs. When to decide to actually play their real speed.... sure seems complicated, trying to hide, and manage the the lower skill level, then play well enough to win when needed, without getting caught... in a league that generally doesn't have payouts, or at least not large ones.
I like to keep score for the matches involving players that I suspect are trying to pad their innings.
They have all their defensive shots marked when I keep score.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
Loser mentality.When I hear this, I wonder what the point of the sandbagging would be? What are they saving themselves for? If they're worried they're gonna get caught and be locked higher, what would the purpose be of continued sandbagging?
I would have to think the incentive is to be able to have an advantage when one needs. When to decide to actually play their real speed.... sure seems complicated, trying to hide, and manage the the lower skill level, then play well enough to win when needed, without getting caught... in a league that generally doesn't have payouts, or at least not large ones.
I like to keep score for the matches involving players that I suspect are trying to pad their innings.
Unless someone can prove otherwise even though I believe you summed it up perfectly.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
I overhear this quite often when the new season starts or a team being formed. They always specifically talk about how they need a two or a three.
I one jokingly asked if I could join someone’s team and they said I would be too high. I thought perfect but they were looking for a low level player. This is when I knew this was bullshit.
So much misinformation in this thread. Running innings up in apa (8 ball] will NOT make your handicap down. PM me and I'll send you the information that the apa doesn't want you to know about. I can't publish it here on a forum, but I'll send it to you privately.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
If it is about coaching low level players more so than building a team with too players then it tells me it’s a big hustle.
You the top player are going to teach new players and low level players how to play pool and hopefully they can do the same in the future. Rinse and repeat. All in the name of growing pool and keeping their business model alive.
You the top player are going to teach new players and low level players how to play pool and hopefully they can do the same in the future. Rinse and repeat. All in the name of growing pool and keeping their business model alive.
it is so they won't have to change teams or start their own. This creates the clique system in many leagues and pool rooms with in-house leagues. One of the points of APA and other leagues is when you get to the higher skill levels you should branch out and create your own team so more lower rated players can play and learn the game.When I hear this, I wonder what the point of the sandbagging would be? What are they saving themselves for? If they're worried they're gonna get caught and be locked higher, what would the purpose be of continued sandbagging?
I would have to think the incentive is to be able to have an advantage when one needs. When to decide to actually play their real speed.... sure seems complicated, trying to hide, and manage the the lower skill level, then play well enough to win when needed, without getting caught... in a league that generally doesn't have payouts, or at least not large ones.
I like to keep score for the matches involving players that I suspect are trying to pad their innings.
Growing pool? Sure. How else would you do it? Business model? The business model for my and all other successful APA franchises is provide a product that appeals to a large audience, including beginners and novice players (no audience is larger). Part of that appeal is definitely the feeling of being valued for something other than pool-playing prowess. The real genius is being valued even though you're not a good player, and being competitive even though you suck and you know it.
There must be some appeal to intermediate and better players though, or they would simply move on to something else and nobody would be left to value those who don't play well. Masters, U.S. Amateur, and high tiers in the singles program are all things designed specifically for the better players. Some like teaching, some like playing with friends who suck, etc. One of the best players in my league joined just for singles but learned over time to value the camaraderie he developed with friends who suck and found something he could enjoy with his wife, who also sucked at pool. He also enjoyed the teaching aspect. APA provided all of those things and he remained a long-term member.
Our focus on the beginners and novice players also provides some stuff of value to intermediate and advanced players. Maybe not to you, but to many others. If you get no value, by all means, don't play. It's anything but a hustle - a hustle involves taking money for something where the perceived return is much greater than the actual return. APA does not overstate it's returns. This is just someone who realized long ago that you can build a product involving pool that will appeal to a very large audience but is not singularly focused on the best players, and has worked very hard over the years to add more and more value to that product.
I would say 75% of the NEW players that came into the league were SL2 or 3 and new to the game. Maybe some thought they were pretty good on a bar table sat. night, and found out they weren't in this case.
So yeah, you "coach" the new players how to win in league play. That's what the 9, capt'n and myself did when we had time.
ummmmm. It was all about TEAM play. working together as a TEAM.
"Always coaching" was done when we had time, usually 30 mins before the entire match began. Sometimes on another table when it was not their turn to play.
So, it was about TEAM building and their role in the TEAM as a player.
Perhaps you missed the concept.
BTW, I haven't been in league play over 4 yrs now, (I got tired of the BS).
The funny thing is that the computer will catch up with them, at some point. At some point, they'll end up playing teams that know how to keep score properly. At some point they'll forget what they're doing and actually try to win.
Just seems like an awful lot of work for something that is supposed to be fun.
If 8 is being put down then at least take some fun photos.
Has anyone set a record for getting hit in the head with 8 balls until falling down.
In contact sports how long it takes to fall down and get a whistle matters. 8 ball needs that hey I want to punch you out moment.
Has anyone set a record for getting hit in the head with 8 balls until falling down.
In contact sports how long it takes to fall down and get a whistle matters. 8 ball needs that hey I want to punch you out moment.
I get it and appreciate your feelings since they are similar to mine.
The real pisser for me about the APA. My rank of 8/6 was from 2002 when I stopped playing APA and moved back to Chicago. There I played ACS and loved it. Best handicap system of any league.
Anyway fast forward to 2023 and I try to get on an APA team and no one wants me due to the high rank. So I contact the APA and ask for some relief. Hell I was 70 years old then and have tremors in my right arm along with other health issues. None are going to kill me but the tremors has affected my stroke.
The APA could care less and refuse my request, telling me my rank will be what it is once I get back to playing. They didn’t care a bit that no team would take me. That was the end for me.
Tried TAP and that was a shitshow for different reasons. Now at 71 I hardly play and am selling off cues and pool items.
I still have a lot of stuff and hope my interest in playing comes back soon.