See the "Is it better to practice on a table with tight pockets?" section here:
is there benefit to increasing table difficulty factor on my home table?
- Thread starter CanadianGuy
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See the "Is it better to practice on a table with tight pockets?" section here:
If you can mange to keep your practice routine the same, then you can benefit from the smaller pockets. Problem is, that's not as easy to do as you would think. You almost have to accept that you're going to miss more balls and continue on. If you can easily practice/play for 2 hours on your existing table, but it becomes a grind to do the same after you tighten it up -- will you really gain anything? (I know there's the quantity vs quality thing)
Only you can answer the question about your own psychology.
Only you can answer the question about your own psychology.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I like fast cloth on a 7' table.it becomes a finesse game. I'm not so sure it's always easier to go up in power, I think there's a limit. I guess it's my own fault for getting too straight on the shot, but a stun shot shootout much angle can take a lot of power, my form often suffers on those shots.
A lot of good suggestions here but try this before you make a change. Put an object ball in the center of the table and the cue ball in the jaws of a corner pocket. Now shot the object ball to the opposite pocket. If this doesn't drive you nuts then your stroke will greatly improve. You do not need smaller pockets until you are comfortable with long shots.
I think the ideal answer is: slightly tighter pockets, with speed equal on the cloth and rubber as to what you're going to compete on in the wild. I know that's an almost imposssible ask but as close to that as you can get would be my answer.
Lou Figueroa
Lou Figueroa
For your consideration:
"One thing that makes this match stand out is it took place at the TAR Studio when the table was a specially made version from Diamond Billiards with extremely tight 4 inch pockets. The table was so tight and could impact play at times so much that it was eventually traded out for a standard cut Diamond. You see the table play a part in this match."
The Action Report
The Action Report brings you a unique look at professional pool.
www.theactionreport.com
"One thing that makes this match stand out is it took place at the TAR Studio when the table was a specially made version from Diamond Billiards with extremely tight 4 inch pockets. The table was so tight and could impact play at times so much that it was eventually traded out for a standard cut Diamond. You see the table play a part in this match."
One more thought on this. As a home table owner (9' Diamond pro), I'm not about to spend the money to keep the cloth in new-ish playing condition. Once the cloth is less than new, it absolutely plays tougher. If one would tighten the pockets and then not recover the table, then those conditions would be brutal and I suspect most would come to regret ever tightening the pockets.
Played an acs 9 ball league last night on a valley. no special set up. Just a plain old big pocket valley. 8 games plus the bunch in warm up and I didn’t miss a ball. Missed position early on in practice. It was a warm day and they had the window‘s open right beside the table and it was playing crazy slow but I adjusted with in a rack. I honestly feel if I can see it I’m out. I don’t know how I ever missed in the past on these things now that I play on a diamond daily. It honestly wasn’t even fun .. If that is what I had in my garage I think I would not play nearly much as I do.
On a side note the tempature dropped of course half way through the night and they shut the window. It still amazes me how quick a table can change. with in 15 mins that thing went from slow to lightning fast lol
On a side note the tempature dropped of course half way through the night and they shut the window. It still amazes me how quick a table can change. with in 15 mins that thing went from slow to lightning fast lol
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And now that’s standard for pro matchesFor your consideration:
The Action Report
The Action Report brings you a unique look at professional pool.www.theactionreport.com
"One thing that makes this match stand out is it took place at the TAR Studio when the table was a specially made version from Diamond Billiards with extremely tight 4 inch pockets. The table was so tight and could impact play at times so much that it was eventually traded out for a standard cut Diamond. You see the table play a part in this match."
The reason I don't think it will make any difference, and I've written this before:
Yes, you will bobble more balls in on an easier table. That means you hit the ball too thick (thick misses are way more common than thin), and your CB won't go as far. You'll be out of line on the next shot. You might still make that next shot. You might even still run that particular rack. It will eventually catch up to you, make no mistake about it, and prevent you from becoming a run-out player.
Even with 6" pockets (which don't exist of course), you have to hit the ball pure and at the correct part of the pocket to get the intended CB position.
Yes, you will bobble more balls in on an easier table. That means you hit the ball too thick (thick misses are way more common than thin), and your CB won't go as far. You'll be out of line on the next shot. You might still make that next shot. You might even still run that particular rack. It will eventually catch up to you, make no mistake about it, and prevent you from becoming a run-out player.
Even with 6" pockets (which don't exist of course), you have to hit the ball pure and at the correct part of the pocket to get the intended CB position.
Standard for 9 ball and 10 ball? I still prefer to think of pool as a collection of games, unlike snooker. Pool, as I see it anyway, generally includes 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, banks, onepocket, 14.1....hell, even Honolulu. 4" pockets with deep shelves like on a diamond are a detriment to 14.1 and banks, IMHO. I continue to wish to play all of the aforementioned games, and as such, I personally believe that the standard Diamond pro represents a fair challenge across games. I've never witnessed even top pros running out entire sets going to 7 games and beyond in 9 ball on 4.5" diamond tables (hell, not on gold crowns either now that I think about it). Until top pros start running out sets regularly, I'm inclined to maintain this position.
Having said all that, it's a game and really doesn't matter much either way I reckon.
i think neuhausen did it recently to lee van, on a rasson with similar pocket size. either way, it's a hard ask to get the top pros to play a race to 7 on tables with 4.5" pockets. for guys like shane, filler, fedor, that's a lag contest / coin flip.
Don't know if this is relevant but here's Chang stacking 10 supposedly playing some guy 12 to 10.
Thanks for this. Even if these packages do happen, they happen infrequently enough to be a special occurrence IMHO, worthy of the "must see" in the title of the video.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Bigger pockets mean that if I face a guy who's on a roll like that I get to go home and cry sooner, instead of trying to fight off the inevitable.
Having 4.125" on my GC4 has been awesome. Brand new cloth and it was a non-issue. As the cloth broke in over the last year it can be brutal.
I am swapping back to the 4.5" top this weekend. It's a hair under 4.5" tbh. Most people that come over don't prefer the tighter top. Its discouraging for many.
I personally don't care either way, if I'm hitting them good the 4.125" corners don't bother me, but if you're hitting them bad you will know immediately.
Can't say it's improved my pocketing or game other than in confidence when I go somewhere else, with buckets for pockets.
I am swapping back to the 4.5" top this weekend. It's a hair under 4.5" tbh. Most people that come over don't prefer the tighter top. Its discouraging for many.
I personally don't care either way, if I'm hitting them good the 4.125" corners don't bother me, but if you're hitting them bad you will know immediately.
Can't say it's improved my pocketing or game other than in confidence when I go somewhere else, with buckets for pockets.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I think that's the biggest benefit. My table's a bit soft so I spend a lot of time practicing tougher shots. If i am taking many shots harder than the easiest 25% that I'm practicing, my game is not going well.
Matchroom is using 4 inch pockets for all tournaments . 4.5 inch pockets on a diamond with the way their pockets are cut is still much better then 4.75 inch pockets on a valley lol
Btw you haven’t witnessed it but it’s happened. they are putting packs together on 4 inch pockets But that’s whey they are pro’s . lol
That’s just nonsense lol none of that makes sense . I don’t need to play as a good a position on a valley because I know if I‘m off who cares. The pockets are so big just hit it smooth with a medium speed .. it will drop right and roll it to the next position or if I actually have to hit it with speed I still have a huge margin of error. I feel no pressure to play great position on a big pocket table because thanks to my home table I know it’s easy to get out of trouble on the valley slush Box. It’s not to say you can’t ever rattle a ball on a valley but it’s a lot harder to which changes everything. It’s like saying if you make a golf hole 5x bigger it won’t make putting easier
sorry man but there is 0 common sense to this post.
True, but AZB's venerable member Atlarge's copious statistics he has compiled for years now do not suggest to me that the pro b & r rate in 9 or 10 ball is high enough that on balance major packages are being put up at a pace that somehow ruins the contest, regardless of playing conditions. I do see in the stats in the link below with a few b & r % topping 40% for nine ball, but those look like the exception not the rule. I guess we can beat the statistics until they tell us what we wish to hear, but in no tournament in that data set do break and run percentages indicate to me that anything is out of line, regardless of pocket size.
In reality, this conversation is somewhat a moot point, as most places are lucky enough just to have even one decent pool room to play at.
I've been watching the top elite players recently and as excellent as a Filler or a Gorst are, I have not judged that they have broken any game just yet.
Break Statistics - Dr. Dave Pool Info
Answers to frequently-asked questions (FAQs) about break statistics in 8-ball, 9-ball, and 10-ball.
billiards.colostate.edu