Players of the past and their Fargo...

BasementDweller said:
I think TPA's are at least slightly and maybe considerably relative to the rules and table conditions. So a .940 on a 4 3/4" Gold Crown, with template rack, and 9 on the spot, is different then that same .940 with the Matchroom version of 9 Ball on a tight Diamond.

***edit***
I know they didn't use templates back in the day. Just using that as an example.
Click to expand...
Maybe slightly but anyone shooting 940 is playing pretty much flawlessly so who knows how much the table has to do with it. Most of the elite players are hitting center pocket more often than not.

Some say those matchroom tables play pretty easy with the new cloth. I have seen many balls that went in matchroom events that would have had no chance on a 4.5 diamond with worn cloth.
 
eight years is getting close, but to me it isnt the test of time yet. not saying filler wont be judged as the best ever but right now i cant give it to him.
 

Main titles of Joshua Filler​


2019　US open


2018 World 9ball Champion


2017 China World 9ball Open WIN


2023​



DateTournamentRoundRating
22.10.20232023 World 8ball Championship9th place
Overseas		2,119
-17
19.10.20232023 World 8ball Championship W96-32Qualifier
Overseas		2,136
+5
11.09.20232023 China Open World 9-ballChampion
Overseas		2,131
+44
08.09.20232023 China Open World 9-ball Qualifying Round GroupHQualifier
Overseas		2,087
-12
04.06.20232023 UK OpenRunner-up
Overseas		2,099
+19
13.05.20232023 World Pool Masters9th place
Overseas		2,080
-22
04.03.20232023 World 10ball Championship3rd place
Overseas		2,102
+6
26.02.20232023 ALFA Las Vegas Open9th place
Overseas		2,085
-1


2022​


DateTournamentRoundRating
22.11.20222022 Predator World 8ball Championship9th place
Overseas		2,070
-10
15.10.20222022 US OPEN 9-BALL CHAMPIONSHIPS9th place
Overseas		2,070
-11
17.07.20222022 World Games Pool MenChampion
Overseas		2,069
+32
22.05.20222022 UK OpenChampion
Overseas		2,038
+31
08.05.20222022 World Pool MastersChampion
Overseas		2,006
+44
10.04.20222022 World 9ball Championship

2021​



DateTournamentRoundRating
16.09.20212021 US Open 9-ball Championship 256-16 W elimination17th place
Overseas		1,955
-7
08.09.20212021 World 10ball Championship17th place
Overseas		1,962
-21
04.09.20212021 Diamond Las Vegas Open5th place
Overseas		1,984
-1
09.06.20212021 World 9ball Championship17th place
Overseas		1,969
-6
07.06.20212021 World 9ball Championship Group Round PQualifier
Overseas		1,975
-16
25.05.20212021 World Pool Masters3rd place
Overseas		1,991
0

 

2020​



DateTournamentRoundRating
14.03.20202020 Diamond Las Vegas Open9th place
Overseas		1,991
+12


2019​



DateTournamentRoundRating
17.12.20192019 World 9ball Championship33rd place
Overseas		1,979
-34
15.12.20192019 World 9ball Championship Stage2 Group1Qualifier
Overseas		2,013
+2
21.09.20192019 Kremlin Cup9th place
Overseas		2,011
-12
08.09.20192019 China Open World 9-ball5th place
Overseas		2,023
-1
06.09.20192019 China Open World 9-ball Qualifying Round GroupAQualifier
Overseas		2,024
+9
26.07.20192019 World 10ball Championship Last 16Runner-up
Overseas		2,015
+24
24.07.20192019 World 10ball ChampionshipQualifier
Overseas		1,991
+3
20.07.20192019 Diamond Las Vegas Open49th place
Overseas		1,988
-42
26.04.20192019 US OPEN 9-BALL CHAMPIONSHIPSChampion
Overseas		2,031
+45
31.03.20192019 World Pool Masters9th place
Overseas		1,962
-21
20.01.20192018 World Pool Series #4 Grand Final Last16 Predator ChampionshipChampion
Overseas		1,984
+39
18.01.20192018 World Pool Series #4 Grand Finale Predator Championship
 

2018​



DateTournamentRoundRating
20.12.20182018 World 9ball Championship Last64Champion
Overseas		1,949
+79
18.12.20182018 World 9ball Championship Stage2 Group2Qualifier
Overseas		1,870
+14
27.10.20182018 THE INTERNATIONAL 9-BALL OPEN33rd place
Overseas		1,856
-22
15.09.20182018 Kremlin Cup17th place
Overseas		1,878
-21
09.09.20182018 China Open World 9-ball17th place
Overseas		1,899
-15
05.09.20182018 China Open World 9-ball Qualifying Round GroupDQualifier
Overseas		1,914
-9
10.08.20182018 World Pool Series #3 8-Ball Classic Championship17th place
Overseas		1,922
-47
10.06.20182018 World Pool Series #2 The Rasson 10-Ball ChampionshipChampion
Overseas		1,970
+96
22.04.20182018 World Pool Series #1 ARAMITH 9-Ball Championship25th place
Overseas		1,873
-66
05.03.20182018 World Pool Masters9th place
Overseas		1,939
-25


2017​



DateTournamentRoundRating
14.12.20172017 World 9ball Championship Last649th place
Overseas		1,964
-1
11.12.20172017 World 9ball Championship Stage2 Group6Qualifier
Overseas		1,965
+37
28.10.20172017 U.S. OPEN 9-BALL CHAMPIONSHIPS9th place
Overseas		1,928
+6
23.09.20172017 Cremlin Cup17th place
Overseas		(1,922)
-60
30.07.20172017 World Games Pool Men9th place
Overseas		(1,983)
-66
11.06.20172017 China Open World 9-ballChampion
Overseas		(2,049)
+248
09.06.20172017 China Open World 9-ball Qualifying Round GroupHQualifier
Overseas		(1,801)
+301







Main titles of Joshua Filler​

2019　US open

2018 World 9ball Champion

2017 China World 9ball Open WIN
 
grady had a few years he might have been the best one pocket player.

people remember lassiter, but may not know he won 6 world titles when aging between 44 and 54 years old. mostly on the road when younger and nobody would play him 9 ball.
when a person still can win a world title at 50 years old he has stood the test of time.
only woods and nicklaus both won world titles 20 years apart. the masters.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
I dont know if it would be easy or hard but a better way may be to get older tournament results which show TPAs for matches. Mark Wilson has said that .900 is world class pool. Maybe that is equivalent to 800? So take players from the past and see what their average TPA was over several tournaments. Then compare that to TPA of say filler or gorst.
Click to expand...
This would be interesting to see.

My guess is Strickland, Archer, Sigel, Varner, Hall... were all close to 800 but not over it.
 
mikepage said:
This would be interesting to see.

My guess is Strickland, Archer, Sigel, Varner, Hall... were all close to 800 but not over it.
Click to expand...
There are two pdfs with full tournament results from 1986. Maybe 2,000 games in total. I had said elsewhere in the thread that it may be possible to get fargos for the players in those tournaments but I have no idea how you would do that without an outside player to compare to. I think you have called it an island before?
 
mikepage said:
This would be interesting to see.

My guess is Strickland, Archer, Sigel, Varner, Hall... were all close to 800 but not over it.
Click to expand...
:)

My bet, is this above crew, if you matched up a game with em, your chances of winning would be 20%.

The irony of the Pinoys vs China, the Pinoys GAMBLE.
Gambling turtles are Much tougher to drown than those in training.

MP.... with your life of numbers, your 800 made me smile. thx
bm
 
Tin Man said:
This would put them even with Mike Dechaine and Justin Bergman. That doesn't feel quite right to me.
Click to expand...

I remember in the early 1980s seeing Alberto Salazar break the American record in the 5,000M run and then running a 2:08 marathon. It was unbelievable. He was so dominant.

I just checked, and in 2023 there were 175 people who went sub 2:08 for the marathon. This event is not unique. It seems to me in activities where there is a clear absolute measure--swimming, jumping, running, throwing--it is like this. I think if the marathon was cross country races of a variety of distances between 20 and 30 miles and all we had was how dominant were the big dogs we'd be wondering whether the top runners of today could keep up with Salazar.

My guess is Filler and Gorst are well ahead of anybody playing before they were born.
 
BasementDweller said:
The game has marched on and the level of play is higher, just like it is in almost all sports. So it's not a fair comparison. The only fair way to compare is to ASSUME yesterday's greats would adapt to today's competitive landscape and their games would be a little better. For many of them, I have little doubt they would have adapted.
Click to expand...

I admit I haven’t read all the replies in this thread. However I believe the players today are better in almost all sports.

For example almost everyone considers Jordan the GOAT in basketball. I saw the other day that there is over 20 players in the NBA averaging better numbers than Jordan did in one of his championship years. Not just scoring. I can’t remember the exact year. I looked but couldn’t find the link to the video.
 
9BallKY said:
I admit I haven’t read all the replies in this thread. However I believe the players today are better in almost all sports.

For example almost everyone considers Jordan the GOAT in basketball. I saw the other day that there is over 20 players in the NBA averaging better numbers than Jordan did in one of his championship years. Not just scoring. I can’t remember the exact year. I looked but couldn’t find the link to the video.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Jordan was a lock-down defender too. I believe he was defensive player of the year one year. Stats don't show that.
 
I suspect that Fargo ratings from many years ago could at least be estimated using all the tournament results available. Accu-Stats must have a good database of matches where they could chart the average rating in major tournament finals over many years to see if the average has been increasing or staying steady. I really wish someone would take that project on (maybe someone already has). The equipment is different, but we'd still get an objective measurement with which to start the debate and see the trends over 10 years or so when equipment/rules weren't changing.
 
Last edited:
sjm said:
I'm an old schooler, but I just can't convince myself that the best of the last generation were as good as the best of this one.

Yes, Sigel, Varner and Earl would have won some titles if they had played in this era.

The depth of fields today greatly eclipses those of even ten years ago and comparing the depth of fields today to the 1980's and 1990s is silly.

Winning majors is soooo difficult today and yet there is a guy who, at 26 years old, has a resume of major titles that is simply mind-blowing, one that eclipses the resume of over 95% of those already in the BCA Hall of Fame.

Let me be the first on this forum to suggest that Josh Filler is the best player of all time.
Click to expand...

Does Filler play a lot of 14.1?
 
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