Shane Van Boening draw stroke: wrist movement analyzed frame-by-frame
- Thread starter DeadStick
- Start date
Sorry, CJ, I couldn't resist...
What I mean is, maybe the videos aren't creating illusions and your wrist action is different than you think...?
pj
chgo
JohnnyP's stroke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgQcSmr9l6Q&t=1m55s
Trying to get props from local shortstop Ramin (Baktiari), to no avail.
Nice stroke Johnny. Bigger stroke than 'L' drill
re s/stop props-dispensed sparingly:wink:
To me it looks like SVB tries to keep his wrist cocked throughout the stroke, but with a loose grip he gets just a little break on the transition forward. Occasionally, (especially on the case ball or when he's just letting his stroke out) you'll see much more of a snap and maybe even a rolling wrist (the wrist roll happens in Earl's stroke shots a lot). I've tried CJ's hammer grip and snap forward (down into the bridge)...it definitely works, but like I said earlier I'm much happier with my current grip. I just can't get the feel down as well with this type of "plugged in" style. I like the cocked wrist part, though; it is VERY straight. I also think SVB uses such a long bridge for feel/action on the cue ball, like the Filipinos. He gets away with it, because he shoots so much centerline cue ball...plenty of draw and follow, but never more spin than he needs. To me, that's the key to SVB's genius. Putting aside the larger pocket zone part of CJ's "touch of inside" technique (not to debate the over-debated and controversial point), the dead-accurate vertical line you keep on all your strokes is probably the most useful part of the technique. Years ago I ran into a road player that told me (and showed me) that the best way to run a table was to use nothing but center line cue ball...he said once you learned how to run a rack with no English (just draw or follow), you pretty much learned all there was to the game. I'm thinking I disregarded the best advice I'd ever gotten (like a lot of advice in my life).
I've been paying A LOT more attention to top players since I took on the "touch of inside" technique (which I LOVE, btw)...Looking back on my playing history, the first thing I learned, fell in love with and over-used as a banger was draw...was convinced I only needed it and could slide/muscle the cue ball wherever I wanted. Then I learned how to spin a cue ball and deflect/throw balls with incredible variance...then that's pretty much where I stopped, no matter how "advanced" I became over the years. Now I see so many top players that tend to stun/center ball their way not just through games/runs, but through whole matches/tournaments. Watch how dead SVB's cue ball is most of the time...I'm talking spin, not draw/follow, which he uses lots of...most of his shots just hit one rail and back out to the center. Nothing fancy, unless he needs it and then he can spin whitey with the best; but mostly not. I think the vast majority of players (all levels, even up to A) tend to do WAY too much to the cue ball as a general rule, and it's what ends up biting them in the a$$ and ending the run.
I've been paying A LOT more attention to top players since I took on the "touch of inside" technique (which I LOVE, btw)...Looking back on my playing history, the first thing I learned, fell in love with and over-used as a banger was draw...was convinced I only needed it and could slide/muscle the cue ball wherever I wanted. Then I learned how to spin a cue ball and deflect/throw balls with incredible variance...then that's pretty much where I stopped, no matter how "advanced" I became over the years. Now I see so many top players that tend to stun/center ball their way not just through games/runs, but through whole matches/tournaments. Watch how dead SVB's cue ball is most of the time...I'm talking spin, not draw/follow, which he uses lots of...most of his shots just hit one rail and back out to the center. Nothing fancy, unless he needs it and then he can spin whitey with the best; but mostly not. I think the vast majority of players (all levels, even up to A) tend to do WAY too much to the cue ball as a general rule, and it's what ends up biting them in the a$$ and ending the run.
DeadStick,
That was GREAT. Normally I don't ask people to do additional "work" but if you are ever so inclined, I would love to see similar frame by frame analysis of CJ Wiley's stroke. I could almost swear that he keeps his wrist permanently cocked forward on MANY or most SHOTS.
That was GREAT. Normally I don't ask people to do additional "work" but if you are ever so inclined, I would love to see similar frame by frame analysis of CJ Wiley's stroke. I could almost swear that he keeps his wrist permanently cocked forward on MANY or most SHOTS.
I have a theory about cocking the wrist forward at the start of the stroke. I think it tells your subconscious "This is where I want my wrist to be at the finish, through the ball."
Basically, it starts you out with your hand already into your follow though, and that's how you want to end up.
Basically, it starts you out with your hand already into your follow though, and that's how you want to end up.
actually what would be interesting is an alisys of another champion not known for that initial grip position
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
another angle of shanes grip.
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Sorry to resurrect this thread I started in 2012, but I’ve always been fascinated with SVB’s wristy power stroke, and also interested in CJ Wiley’s description of his own wrist mechanics and his “hammer” move.
While CJ’s descriptions never seemed to match up with what Shane is doing, I found a recent video of CJ’s where he discusses training a powerful stroke using a long and heavy wooden rod, and it looks like at 7:30 here that he’s doing something very close to Shane’s movement I analyzed in the first post of this thread:
I haven’t found a good hi-res video yet of a power stroke by CJ from the side to analyze frame by frame, but I’m still looking. Let me know if you find one and I’ll break it down.
While CJ’s descriptions never seemed to match up with what Shane is doing, I found a recent video of CJ’s where he discusses training a powerful stroke using a long and heavy wooden rod, and it looks like at 7:30 here that he’s doing something very close to Shane’s movement I analyzed in the first post of this thread:
I haven’t found a good hi-res video yet of a power stroke by CJ from the side to analyze frame by frame, but I’m still looking. Let me know if you find one and I’ll break it down.
would not open, darnJohnnyP's stroke:
Trying to get props from local shortstop Ramin (Baktiari), to no avail.
Thanks for reposting this
I usually hammer these 'thread resurrections' but this one has good info. Both CJ and SVB use a 'forward cocked' wrist angle. I tried it once and its a no-go for me. My hand just doesn't work that way. CJ was a really good tennis player in his younger days and i think a lot of his grip style came from how he held the racquet.
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I have always noticed shane has a bit of hitch....or as I like to refer to it a pump fake in his stroke right at the end of the back swing when he starts his forward motion.........It reminds me a lot of a forward press that quite a few people develop when putting in Golf....it is like a trigger release to start the backward motion......you ever so slight shift your hands forward and then bring the putter back.
I am not sure if with Shane that is just his natural nuance or if he forces it.....I suspect just natural stoke nuance.
Not something I would try to duplicate as it won't be natural (for me) and would likely breakdown under pressure.
I am not sure if with Shane that is just his natural nuance or if he forces it.....I suspect just natural stoke nuance.
Not something I would try to duplicate as it won't be natural (for me) and would likely breakdown under pressure.
There's been lots of talk about that "hitch"/pause, some people do it naturally and some do it on purpose. When I'm in the zone I have somewhat of a hitch but if I try to do it on purpose it throws off my rhythm. I gave up, lol.
it really doesnt matter if you use your wrist or arm or whatever it is strictly the speed of the stick at contact. however you get that speed is up to you and that is what you can repeat over and over under pressure. under pressure you are going to revert to what would come naturally for you so best to develop your stroke along those lines.
that is why all the pros have different strokes, same with golfers, batters, tennis pros etc.
in pool the easiest way for increased speed with less deviation is wrist as we are used to using our wrists all our lives throwing things, etc.
if you try to make your stroke like any particular pro you idolize you are never going to benefit for that.
that is why all the pros have different strokes, same with golfers, batters, tennis pros etc.
in pool the easiest way for increased speed with less deviation is wrist as we are used to using our wrists all our lives throwing things, etc.
if you try to make your stroke like any particular pro you idolize you are never going to benefit for that.
This is exactly the kind of thread where a bump is OK, for the theoretical concepts contained are as important today as then. A question that seems pertinent is whether Shane has made changes in his stroke delivery in the last twelve years.