Never forget Mike Lebron
- Thread starter smiling_Hans
- Start date
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I would point out one difference in the Pete Rose/Buddy Hall analogy, and that is Pete Rose never bet on his team to lose, big difference. Another questionable win in pool was the 1996 Varner/Davenport final match at the Sands Regency casino. Most of the people sitting around me were convinced that Davenport 'dumped' to Varner in that one as well. This pains me to talk about because I really like Buddy, Kim, and Nick and have a tremendous respect for them.
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it was the casino owners and execs. that had bet and lost. so it was a slap in the face for them.
some stayed out of it but then had to lose early on so not to be put in the late play spot.
it was a bad deal and turned out that way as mike couldn't make a ball on his own.
when that happens you need to bite the bullet and just take the win and not the heat.
some stayed out of it but then had to lose early on so not to be put in the late play spot.
it was a bad deal and turned out that way as mike couldn't make a ball on his own.
when that happens you need to bite the bullet and just take the win and not the heat.
I think you are very mistaken about Mikes skill level, he was not a favorite against Buddy , almost nobody was, but he was not helpless either.
Whatever happened , imo, had very little effect on the future of pool. Why you ask, because it was an inevitability that the players would try some move, that's part of being a pool player. If it didn't happen that week, it would have happened 2 weeks later .
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smiling_Hans
Well-known member
Dumping and sandbagging is wrong but the amount of pressure to dump a match on the professional level is admirable.
Imagine trying your best to miss and make it believable.
Then the winner has to pretend to celebrate and loser starts breaking his stick into 10 pieces. These guys have balls.
Imagine trying your best to miss and make it believable.
Then the winner has to pretend to celebrate and loser starts breaking his stick into 10 pieces. These guys have balls.
I'll bet this had more to do with Matchroom being required to adhere to certain conditions as stipulated by MGM.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
speechless, that made Stephen Lee's fix look good lol
The only way you know about a dump is if you were in on the dump yourself. Everything else is folly, rumors, and fake news without the facts from the horse's mouth.
Pool purists love to condemn gambling at every turn and continue to bring up this one event over and over and over and over again as if it's the reason pool has one tire in the mud. It's not the gambling. It's the pool purists who would rather watch tournament soldiers play mum pool. Gambling is a sin in their eyes. Pool purists are the very ones who have been and still are keeping pool in doldrums.
Well, somewhere around the mid 19th century, gamblers used to pool their money on horse races at certain betting locations. These locations generally had billiard tables installed in them, which were then called "pool-rooms." Over the time, this term got refined to "pool," which then became synonymous for the game itself.
And without it, pool culture in USA would never have been launched, and entities like Matchroom, Predator, and WPA would have never materialized. USA, USA, USA, all the way, leaders of the pack.
Pool purists love to condemn gambling at every turn and continue to bring up this one event over and over and over and over again as if it's the reason pool has one tire in the mud. It's not the gambling. It's the pool purists who would rather watch tournament soldiers play mum pool. Gambling is a sin in their eyes. Pool purists are the very ones who have been and still are keeping pool in doldrums.
Well, somewhere around the mid 19th century, gamblers used to pool their money on horse races at certain betting locations. These locations generally had billiard tables installed in them, which were then called "pool-rooms." Over the time, this term got refined to "pool," which then became synonymous for the game itself.
And without it, pool culture in USA would never have been launched, and entities like Matchroom, Predator, and WPA would have never materialized. USA, USA, USA, all the way, leaders of the pack.
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I like to say, "Only the guilty know for sure."
There should be a classification above top secret referred to as guilty only.
There should be a classification above top secret referred to as guilty only.
Please don't blame my inabilities at clairvoyance, for your lack of writing skills.
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Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I am pretty sure you can see the dump here in this video. The only ambiguity is who is in on it, and how much was splashed around. I am actually genuinely surprised by the sheer obviousness having not seen the video until this thread.
Having been so informed, (AZ - where else?) it seems comically obvious. Had I come across the match independently, I would have dismissed it as old hustlers on overconfidence.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I am not sure. A couple of those shots. Just wow. Supposed to be one of the 'great players'
Some of the ones I've seen in snooker needed context added. But If I saw this prior to the info added, I would wonder what on earth is going on. It's like cardboard old movie acting, that 8-ball in the penultimate rack... 'who moved the pocket 5" to the right?'
Watching him try to hand it to the guy on a plate. Scratching on the one in the final rack, trying to do it again from the 2, trying to hook himself behind the 8 for the 6, missing that combo... yikes. Are there any more obvious examples of fixing in cue sports? Whether spot, or match fixing? Curious.
I've seen a fair few in the game of cricket (Amir/Butt/Asif, Hansie Cronjie etc). I think such practices/people who tarnish the reputation of a game need strong penalties/reprimand.
I'm all for people throwing money at whatever they like, but betting on a drugged mule when spectators want to watch thoroughbreds, or people genuinely there for an honest bet, is where it gets very sour.
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Bad rolls and lebron doggin the 7 ball in game 8 exposed the dump for the world to see
buddy was suffering from brain freeze when he didn't make the combo in game 9
some peeps would have gotten pisst, however, i'm sure buddy would have survived as would pool's rep in the casino's
gotta deviate from the script as required based on circumstances
buddy was suffering from brain freeze when he didn't make the combo in game 9
some peeps would have gotten pisst, however, i'm sure buddy would have survived as would pool's rep in the casino's
gotta deviate from the script as required based on circumstances
There's that certainty missing though. The only thing that remotely piques my curiosity is who/what was in play that they made off with it - on TV no less.
There is this part of me that’s got to reconcile the speculation, with my admiration for pool’s legends, to my absolute disgust at the possibility of lying, cheating and stealing from my role models. I’ve seen other threads about this over the years trying to shrug it off as a mistake or a poor choice where if it’s true then it’s much worse than that.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I mean, the only certainty missing is the iron-clad evidence. It's pretty obvious for anyone who has played the game that this reeks.
Agree, probably have your thumbs broken (or worse) trying to find out at the time lol
Can be hurtful, I agree with you. But That doesn't mean we should put up walls, or blind ourselves to reality. These people represent the thing we love. I grew up admiring Amir throwing 90+mph thunderbolts, but I firmly believe he should never have been allowed to play international sport again. We can't justify protecting people who actively desecrate things that we love and enjoy.
Honestly, I can't find a part of my brain that allows such high-calibre player to make such fumbles.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Maybe he had a minor epileptic episode...
The fact there's obvious script should see some level of real investigation/reprimand