One Pocket Rules - Calling Accidental Foul on Self

F

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I saw an interesting debate on Facebook last night regarding a one pocket situation that came up at the end of the recent Sky vs Fedor one-pocket match. Apparently Fedor accidentally fouled, called a foul on himself, and spotted a ball. Sky was then left with a straight in shot at the spotted ball to win the match, which he made.

The debate was whether or not Fedor was allowed to call the foul on himself. In this specific situation, the foul clearly benefitted Sky, so there was no issue. However, what if there was already a ball on the spot and the newly spotted ball created a cluster which benefitted Fedor? Would this be allowed?

Some people were saying that in one-pocket the shooter isn't allowed to call a foul on himself. And if he does, the opponent has the option to accept the foul or not.

I've never considered this situation before and I'm curious what the official rules say or how this is typically handled. Let me know what you guys think.
 
FeelDaShot said:
I saw an interesting debate on Facebook last night regarding a one pocket situation that came up at the end of the recent Sky vs Fedor one-pocket match. Apparently Fedor accidentally fouled, called a foul on himself, and spotted a ball. Sky was then left with a straight in shot at the spotted ball to win the match, which he made.

The debate was whether or not Fedor was allowed to call the foul on himself. In this specific situation, the foul clearly benefitted Sky, so there was no issue. However, what if there was already a ball on the spot and the newly spotted ball created a cluster which benefitted Fedor? Would this be allowed?

Some people were saying that in one-pocket the shooter isn't allowed to call a foul on himself. And if he does, the opponent has the option to accept the foul or not.

I've never considered this situation before and I'm curious what the official rules say or how this is typically handled. Let me know what you guys think.
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if the player wants that result he could just take an intentional so i don't see the point of the debate
 
FeelDaShot said:
The point is that a player can play a bad shot and then call a foul on himself afterwards to gain an advantage.
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Fortunately, I think it is very rare that a shot will look anything like a foul when the player wishes it had been a foul.

I think that both players have an obligation to see that all rules are observed. That includes calling fouls on yourself.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Can the sitting player refuse to acknowledge an actual foul?
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No, especially at one pocket. There is the classic shot of Efren's where a ball is in his opponent's pocket but he's corner hooked in his own pocket. He lags the cue ball onto the spot. He spots a ball, blocking his opponent. The opponent couldn't just say, "Oh, let's not call that a foul."
 
It's one of those weird things where it seems like a rough rub if someone accidentally fouls and gains an advantage, but it can also be used on purpose strategically which is usually accepted. Like purposely taking a foul and tying up a couple balls in 9 ball when you don't have a good legal shot to play. Everybody plays by the same rules, sometimes the accidental rolls go your way and sometimes they don't.
 
FeelDaShot said:
The point is that a player can play a bad shot and then call a foul on himself afterwards to gain an advantage.
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A foul is a 'bad shot', by definition.

An intentional (foul is understood/ implied, as you know you know) is exactly what is happening when one follows a ball into opponent's pocket in order to spot two.

Didn't see the fedor thing.
 
Bob Jewett said:
No, especially at one pocket. There is the classic shot of Efren's where a ball is in his opponent's pocket but he's corner hooked in his own pocket. He lags the cue ball onto the spot. He spots a ball, blocking his opponent. The opponent couldn't just say, "Oh, let's not call that a foul."
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I think I saw that on an old Accu-Stats.

But it was Jarvis playing somebody, it’s case game, and Freddy the Beard is in the booth. Freddy repeatedly calls this shot but Jarvis shoots something else and loses. Freddy gets out of the booth and tells Jarvis the shot, he sets it up, shoots it, and nods.

Think I’ve seen it in one other game…

Lou Figueroa
how can I remember this stuff
but can’t remember what I had
for dinner last night, lol
 
MitchAlsup said:
I comes down more to the players themselves than the rules.
Players who consider themselves gentlemen will call the foul on themselves regardless.
Players who are not--need not apply.
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And players who aren't gentlemen will say they are in order to call the foul that benefits them.
 
If you are an honorable player -- and frankly, I don't even know what that means in todays' day and age -- you call a foul you have committed without prompting from your opponent.

At the Derby this year I committed a double hit, following through too far. I didn't even know if my opponent was aware but I knew from the behavior of the balls it was a foul. Cost me the game but not my honor.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
If you are an honorable player -- and frankly, I don't even know what that means in todays' day and age -- you call a foul you have committed without prompting from your opponent.

At the Derby this year I committed a double hit, following through too far. I didn't even know if my opponent was aware but I knew from the behavior of the balls it was a foul. Cost me the game but not my honor.

Lou Figueroa
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As one who has played competitive golf and plays one pocket I don’t understand why there needs to be a conversation about calling fouls on oneself. Are you looking for an edge? The rules are the edge.
 
Some things like touching a cue ball with a tip without moving it on a warm up stroke can only be seen or known by the shooter. Rarely is even an official referee in the perfect position to see it. Did the player foul, did he stop a few thousandths short of touching the cue ball? Often the player is the only one that knows for sure, sometimes the player doesn't even know.

Sometimes it is specifically stated the referee is responsible for all calls. Can't blame a player for not calling a foul in these cases. Most just figure it evens out over time, good calls and bad for and against you over many events. A referee called a foul on Efren when he was playing Keith. Both very seasoned warriors at this point, Efren didn't get upset about the bad call, Keith being Keith had to comment he thought it was a bad call but said he was going to take it.

When it is the referee's specific job to call fouls you risk penalties as high as unsportsmanlike play to call them on yourself. Never seen more than a warning but it is possible.

When the rules state the opponent calls fouls it is in direct conflict with the etiquette of staying in your seat while your opponent is shooting. I have never yet seen an official chair for a referee and them parking their asses in a chair for the duration of a pool match! When the other player doesn't call blatant fouls on themselves I become the referee, including standing directly over a shot to be able to call it if that is what is required! More commonly when playing a dick who denies obvious fouls, I fake foul, jerking my head around to check if he saw something after a perfectly legal shot that was hidden from his view. Probably unsportsmanlike, I considered it fighting fire with fire. In every case the other player got so busy playing referee they couldn't play pool!

Nobody is in the same position to call fouls that the shooter is. While I don't lose respect for players that don't call their own fouls in big events with refs, my respect increases for those that do.

Over the years I have moved from strictly calling my own fouls to "when in Rome" to strictly calling them again. I don't have tens of thousands on the line and the prestige of being an upper echelon pro though.

A lot of sport have bad calls by officials. Most pro's just roll with them. Few events announce the rule set they are playing under. The total purse and calcuttas topped a half million at Buffalo's recent event. Buffalo is medium height and feels the need to climb on a table sometimes. His are the only high paying events I know of that specify climbing on tables is legal. Of course with a two thousand dollar entry he doesn't have people that don't know how to get on and off a table damaging tables.

I wrote a lot to not really answer the original question. With intentional fouls being legal it is a nonissue. You foul, you spot a ball. In one pocket it isn't too unusual for that to be a strategic move. At least one match at Buff's recent event went over six hours! I imagine the video could be sold as a tutorial on one pocket moves.

Hu
 
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