2024 World Pool Championship

[Oikawa]

Not on board with this at all.

First of all, the pockets are looser than at the UK Open, so that mistake was corrected. Second, all comers to this event knew what the equipment specifications would be at the World Championships months ago, so they had ample opportunity to prepare for it. They also knew who they'd have to compete against.

Finally, the argument that slow play is justifiable because big money is on the line doesn't hold water. Slow play is penalized in all games, because event producers know that fans don't enjoy it when competitive encounters drag on and on. That's why basketball has a shot clock, baseball has a pitch clock, football has a play clock, and why seemingly every sport penalizes those who drain their sport of its energy through slow play.

Keeping pool marketable and exciting is all that matters and tolerating lethargically slow play compromises the quality of the pro pool product.

The ideal solution is a more wide-spread usage of shot clocks. If you are playing for large money and not under a shot clock, and feel like thinking a bit more or taking a bit longer on the shot routine increases your odds of running out, you will absolutely take that extra time, and shouldn't be ashamed of it. Shot clocks are such a simple solution to this issue that I don't understand why they aren't used more. With the production level of Matchroom, it shouldn't be too hard.

 

[fjk]

Not on board with this at all.

First of all, the pockets are looser than at the UK Open, so that mistake was corrected. Second, all comers to this event knew what the equipment specifications would be at the World Championships months ago, so they had ample opportunity to prepare for it. They also knew who they'd have to compete against.

Finally, the argument that slow play is justifiable because big money is on the line doesn't hold water. Slow play is penalized in all games, because event producers know that fans don't enjoy it when competitive encounters drag on and on. That's why basketball has a shot clock, baseball has a pitch clock, football has a play clock, and why seemingly every sport penalizes those who drain their sport of its energy through slow play.

Keeping pool marketable and exciting is all that matters and tolerating lethargically slow play compromises the quality of the pro pool product.

I'm probably more tolerant of slow play than most. But there are times when it's obvious there's only a few ways to play a shot and either one could be made to work. Still, sometimes they stare at those shots so long and so intently it looks like they were playing in a chess tournament for a million dollars. Some of the best pool I've ever seen played was played fast and in a rhythm. I don't believe those really slow players are doing themselves any favors agonizing over every shot...that has to drain mental energy.

 

[smoochie]

I think it's Jefferey saying something about the camera at the end, and everybody seeing something bala bala. Which I assume is a foul at some point? I thought maybe he it was when he was shooting over the 5 ball. But I actually have no idea and am curious also.

Edit: Having watched again with sound on for the whole last rack, it is. Jefferey asks the ref it's a foul when Souta is shooting over the 5, and ref says no. Hard to tell, but I also think he doesn't touch the five and is seemingly quite far from it on the angle that we can view. Maybe Jeffy getting his shark on.

Its about powder, all about powder and how dirty the table/rails gets because of Ignacio hands.

You see the spanish player was very annoyed and irritated at how some areas of the rails are looking with white lines from powder. Then he saw ignacio do that when try to see if the 4ball goes or not, you can see he put his right hand on the table (Right hand is the grib hand), measuring the pocket near the rail then the spanish blonde guy called the referee to tell him that the rails are all white from powder and we know the new rules don't allow powder usage which is why most players using CF or gloves/wood, anyway... Ignacio stated that he's using powder on his grib hands which he holds with the cue because its always wet. Still the spanish player didn't like it and states that even if its his grib hand or the bridge hand he doesnt care, the table still gets dirty.

ignacio again emphasized that he using it not with bridge hand, instead with his grib hand which he holds up the cue with...but spanish guy still annoyed

Then he asked the referee to clean it which they did after rack #17 i think.....

but at the end when the spanish guy lost he still wanted to vent over it that it annoyed him, and he mentioned that ignacio is on camera and its not nice what he done.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Its about powder, all about powder and how dirty the table/rails gets because of Ignacio hands.

You see the spanish player was very annoyed and irritated at how some areas of the rails are looking with white lines from powder. Then he saw ignacio do that when try to see if the 4ball goes or not, you can see he put his right hand on the table (Right hand is the grib hand), measuring the pocket near the rail then the spanish blonde guy called the referee to tell him that the rails are all white from powder and we know the new rules don't allow powder usage which is why most players using CF or gloves/wood, anyway... Ignacio stated that he's using powder on his grib hands which he holds with the cue because its always wet. Still the spanish player didn't like it and states that even if its his grib hand or the bridge hand he doesnt care, the table still gets dirty.

ignacio again emphasized that he using it not with bridge hand, instead with his grib hand which he holds up the cue with...but spanish guy still annoyed

Then he asked the referee to clean it which they did after rack #17 i think.....

but at the end when the spanish guy lost he still wanted to vent over it that it annoyed him, and he mentioned that ignacio is on camera and its not nice what he done.

Thanks for the explanation. There was some discussion over the 5 ball I mentioned, so I thought that's what he was referring to when he said 'we can all see it on the camera' at the end of the match (As Ignacio did ask the ref at that point in the match if Souto fouled).

 

[smoochie]

Its about powder, all about powder and how dirty the table/rails gets because of Ignacio hands.

You see the spanish player was very annoyed and irritated at how some areas of the rails are looking with white lines from powder. Then he saw ignacio do that when try to see if the 4ball goes or not, you can see he put his right hand on the table (Right hand is the grib hand), measuring the pocket near the rail then the spanish blonde guy called the referee to tell him that the rails are all white from powder and we know the new rules don't allow powder usage which is why most players using CF or gloves/wood, anyway... Ignacio stated that he's using powder on his grib hands which he holds with the cue because its always wet. Still the spanish player didn't like it and states that even if its his grib hand or the bridge hand he doesnt care, the table still gets dirty.

ignacio again emphasized that he using it not with bridge hand, instead with his grib hand which he holds up the cue with...but spanish guy still annoyed

Then he asked the referee to clean it which they did after rack #17 i think.....

but at the end when the spanish guy lost he still wanted to vent over it that it annoyed him, and he mentioned that ignacio is on camera and its not nice what he done.

btw the spanish keeps repeating that its not on purpose but I feel deep down he thinks ignacio doing that on purpose to make balls go easier....maybe thats how he feels, especially with the 4ball shot which was tight in the pocket maybe he thinks if ignacio applys force there with powder it goes in easier.

 

[Oikawa]

But there are times when it's obvious there's only a few ways to play a shot and either one could be made to work.

Maybe they're weighting the overall probability of both options to figure out which one is less likely to go wrong. In that case it's not fully useless. Oversimplifying this so it won't be too long of an explanation, but even if both options are over 90% to run out from there, noticing 97% styles over 95% styles adds up in the long run.

 

[smoochie]

Thanks for the explanation. There was some discussion over the 5 ball I mentioned, so I thought that's what he was referring to when he said 'we can all see it on the camera' at the end of the match (As Ignacio did ask the ref at that point in the match if Souto fouled).

you mean the pink 4 which was very tight going in pass the 8ball? yes thats it, because the spanish thinks he applys the "white" which he means is a powder to make the ball go in easier.....but in the video he said "yes i know its not on purpose" but i believe he thinks its on purpose but dont wana say it....

at the end of the match he said "its not nice what u did, u are on camera"

 

[Flakeandrun]

btw the spanish keeps repeating that its not on purpose but I feel deep down he thinks ignacio doing that on purpose to make balls go easier....maybe thats how he feels, especially with the 4ball shot which was tight in the pocket maybe he thinks if ignacio applys force there with powder it goes in easier.

Makes things go easier? I mean, that sounds farfetched. I can see it being annoying or off putting only.

 

[smoochie]

Makes things go easier? I mean, that sounds farfetched. I can see it being annoying or off putting only.

yea but you know these rails are kinda elastic, hard but elastic....and its with experience that if you press hard on a point, it will somehow kind of remains bent for few seconds maybe 5 to 10 secs, in fact back in the 80s I know Mike Sigel used these type of tricks on the point of side pocket, the walk past it during the match but press it very hard to make it move out of the way for some type of shots. thus making the shot go in easier, try it.

 

[smoochie]

what i mean by hard elastic is that the rails will go back to its original shape but will take few seconds before doing it, u cant physically see the bent of the rail but it will be there for few secs.

 

[Dan_B]

Just watch some of the Aranas/Corteza video, maybe an hour, good stuff, hill/hill after 5 1/2 hrs is a bitter lose, they're going to have opinions.
Came away with a great feel for the table speed, conditions, very familiar with it, like it.

revised, ...I thing I mixed a couple of thoughts on a couple of matches there... close, tables are fine.

 

[MmmSharp]

Not on board with this at all.

First of all, the pockets are looser than at the UK Open, so that mistake was corrected. Second, all comers to this event knew what the equipment specifications would be at the World Championships months ago, so they had ample opportunity to prepare for it. They also knew who they'd have to compete against.

Finally, the argument that slow play is justifiable because big money is on the line doesn't hold water. Slow play is penalized in all games, because event producers know that fans don't enjoy it when competitive encounters drag on and on. That's why basketball has a shot clock, baseball has a pitch clock, football has a play clock, and why seemingly every sport penalizes those who drain their sport of its energy through slow play.

Keeping pool marketable and exciting is all that matters and tolerating lethargically slow play compromises the quality of the pro pool product.

Also to add, when games are streamed or played on tv they need to fit into a specific time duration. Moreso on televised events, but one the main reasons those clocks are there is to ensure the event remains on time. No one wants the programming schedule to be thrown off.

 

[BeiberLvr]

 

[Oikawa]

 

[fjk]

Maybe they're weighting the overall probability of both options to figure out which one is less likely to go wrong. In that case it's not fully useless. Oversimplifying this so it won't be too long of an explanation, but even if both options are over 90% to run out from there, noticing 97% styles over 95% styles adds up in the long run.

Yeah, maybe sometimes. But the reality is no human can accurately calculate the success probability to differentiate shot selection options that are anyplace close. If anyone tells you they can, throw your challenge flag on um'. I can understand a few seconds to decide the best shot, but 45 seconds on every shot is more than necessary and just makes it painful to watch.

Also, sometimes everything about the shot is obvious but some still stare at it like starring is going to make it easier. That drives me nuts to try to watch.

 

[Flakeandrun]

View attachment 761653

Dang
Soufi
Ignacio
Kaci
SVB
Zielinski
Raga
Melling

Melling looked pumped, and I think battling gout (which is no fun according to my dad), he'll have some fire in him. I think Filler and Gorst look a little out of sorts so far.

 

[justnum]

To compare to other cue sports, 3 cushion players have more complicated shot lines and are not known for slow play.

Of the limited snooker I watched, slow play is not a problem for them either.

Why slow play has to be monitored and regulated is because the pool player culture.

Pool players are a different breed and they are the only ones innovating the game for a new generation.

Pool players try to form players unions, women have their association and now Matchroom has its own globally standardized ruleset different than the WPA.

Pool players are drivers of change in cue sports. Most notably the women forming their own association is light years ahead of what other sports are doing with their female athletes. To compare the US female Olympic gymnastic team was being violated by its team doctor and the FBI were not reporting the complaints properly. Simone Biles and her team testified to Congress, that Olympic hotel locations are not trauma informed or using trauma based practices to process complaints. Why the Olympics and the USOPC are failing its gold medal athletes is a matter for the US Congress to address. Hopefully before the next Olympics.

Does the general audience understand what a slow play is and how it is used? It doesn't matter, its a nice promo.

 

[jtompilot]

Texas has areas a lot like that. Dallas, H-town, Austin all have lively tourn/action with players in that speed range. There are in-state tours too: Centex(San Antonio/Austin), DFW Tour, Fast Freddies Tour. A lot of good players in Texas.

Waite a minute, you mean there are 9’ tables in Texas with 4” corners

 

[BasementDweller]

Not on board with this at all.

First of all, the pockets are looser than at the UK Open, so that mistake was corrected. Second, all comers to this event knew what the equipment specifications would be at the World Championships months ago, so they had ample opportunity to prepare for it. They also knew who they'd have to compete against.

Finally, the argument that slow play is justifiable because big money is on the line doesn't hold water. Slow play is penalized in all games, because event producers know that fans don't enjoy it when competitive encounters drag on and on. That's why basketball has a shot clock, baseball has a pitch clock, football has a play clock, and why seemingly every sport penalizes those who drain their sport of its energy through slow play.

Keeping pool marketable and exciting is all that matters and tolerating lethargically slow play compromises the quality of the pro pool product.

I actually think you're both right to an extent. I think Tin Man is just defending the players and I get his point. With so much at stake, it shouldn't be expected of the players to play "fast" out of the kindness of their hearts. This is all on Matchroom at this point, and that's where I totally agree with you. Shot clocks on all tables or strict monitoring of pace of play has to be done. We're so close to having a globally interesting product, please don't let it be ruined by slow play.

 

[Tin Man]

I actually think you're both right to an extent. I think Tin Man is just defending the players and I get his point. With so much at stake, it shouldn't be expected of the players to play "fast" out of the kindness of their hearts. This is all on Matchroom at this point, and that's where I totally agree with you. Shot clocks on all tables or strict monitoring of pace of play has to be done. We're so close to having a globally interesting product, please don't let it be ruined by slow play.

Lot of good points from you and Stu. It is Matchroom's responsibility to set up rules that they believe will be best to grow the sport both for the players and viewers. It is the player's job to optimize their performance.

My point is that if the rules don't have a shot clock then I don't hate the players for doing their best. They did indeed know what they signed up for. So did the viewers.