2024 China Open - where are the elite Chinese pros?

[sjm]

there be dragons.. has any non-asian woman won china open? kelly f?

Kelly won in 2012. Of the last 15 China Opens, there have been 13 Chinese champions. The only exceptions are the English Kelly Fisher and the South Korean Ga Young Kim

 

[sjm]

i always liked that way of reasoning because with it i have beat souquet, feijen and immonen. so yes would've been a victory for both . how about beating a guy that once beat a guy that beat kevin bacon?

I beat Mike Sigel (OK, it was race to 2 for charity), who beat Joe Balsis, who beat Mosconi, who beat Greenleaf.

Ergo, SJM beat Sigel, Mosconi and Greenleaf.

 

[skogstokig]

Yes, it is time to stand up and applaud the level of excellence of the two best woman players today and, in my opinion, they are two of the four best ever women pool players.

Siming Chen tends to get more press than Han Yu, mostly because she once mixed it up with Shane and survived. In fact, Siming Chen, in my opinion, is the women's game's most talented player, but greatness is measured in titles, and...

Han Yu has to be the most underrated woman pool player of all time. For most of her career, the three hardest events to win in women's pool have surely been the WPA World 9-ball, the China Open, and the All Japan.

Han Yu (32 years old) now has three WPA World 9-ball titles, four China Open titles, and two All-Japan titles, despite taking a couple of years off for maternity.

By comparison, Siming Chen (30 years old) has two World 9-ball titles, two China Open titles, and two All Japan titles.

There's no need to say who is the better of these two proven superstars, but they are putting together the kind of competitive resumes that only Jean Balukas and Allison Fisher have enjoyed to this point in women's pro pool history.

For those that don't watch women's pro pool, you might want to reconsider for, led by these two mega-stars, the top women are putting on a display of truly exceptional pool that might just shock you.

i agree, it's often worth watching. i've started to watch in recent years. the QF onwards are usually high quality in the big events, but lower tier women players are tough to watch. chezkas win in last years WC was highly entertaining

 

[SBC]

Yes, it is time to stand up and applaud the level of excellence of the two best woman players today and, in my opinion, they are two of the four best ever women pool players.

Siming Chen tends to get more press than Han Yu, mostly because she once mixed it up with Shane and survived. In fact, Siming Chen, in my opinion, is the women's game's most talented player, but greatness is measured in titles, and...

Han Yu has to be the most underrated woman pool player of all time. For most of her career, the three hardest events to win in women's pool have surely been the WPA World 9-ball, the China Open, and the All Japan.

Han Yu (32 years old) now has three WPA World 9-ball titles, four China Open titles, and two All-Japan titles, despite taking a couple of years off for maternity.

By comparison, Siming Chen (30 years old) has two World 9-ball titles, two China Open titles, and two All Japan titles.

There's no need to say who is the better of these two proven superstars, but they are putting together the kind of competitive resumes that only Jean Balukas and Allison Fisher have enjoyed to this point in women's pro pool history.

For those that don't watch women's pro pool, you might want to reconsider for, led by these two mega-stars, the top women are putting on a display of truly exceptional pool that might just shock you.

Watch the matches of Simeng playing Donny Mills who is a 754. He is close, but he can't beat her.

 

[sjm]

Watch the matches of Simeng playing Donny Mills who is a 754. He is close, but he can't beat her.

Yes, I also watched that match (2017?). At the time, SVB opined that Siming was an even game for Billy Thorpe, who is 774 Fargo, but her game has improved quite a bit since. Based on the eye test, I'd call both her and Han Yu about 790.

... and yes, I do feel that they are an even match for a man carrying a 790 Fargo.

 

[Flakeandrun]

i agree, it's often worth watching. i've started to watch in recent years. the QF onwards are usually high quality in the big events, but lower tier women players are tough to watch. chezkas win in last years WC was highly entertaining

Some of these women are total beasts! I had a good weekend on the table, I took three pro scalps and made a little money.
I also watched a friend of mine who is pro, play for a lot more money with a local coach.
The thing that stuck out to me most over the whole weekend, was that as they had a little break, we were smoking and the coach was watching the female final on his phone.
The way in which he discussed the female game was one of the biggest problems in pool in my opinion (which I have discussed at length in other threads).
"Anyone can beat them, even you could beat them" - he said pointing at me...
NO I FUCKING CANNOT.
not even close.
Such attitudes, are in part, why there isn't a bigger pool of highly rated female players. Pool is a game that is gate-kept by men, who will use bizarre reasoning like genetics to explain as to why women are not more competitive with men on the global stage. When in reality, the reasons are deeply ingrained in the culture that surrounds the game.

 

[SBC]

Yes, I also watched that match (2017?). At the time, SVB opined that Siming was an even game for Billy Thorpe, who is 774 Fargo, but her game has improved quite a bit since. Based on the eye test, I'd call both her and Han Yu about 790.

... and yes, I do feel that they are an even match for a man carrying a 790 Fargo.

She ought to play WNT events...

 

[SBC]

Some of these women are total beasts! I had a good weekend on the table, I took three pro scalps and made a little money.
I also watched a friend of mine who is pro, play for a lot more money with a local coach.
The thing that stuck out to me most over the whole weekend, was that as they had a little break, we were smoking and the coach was watching the female final on his phone.
The way in which he discussed the female game was one of the biggest problems in pool in my opinion (which I have discussed at length in other threads).
"Anyone can beat them, even you could beat them" - he said pointing at me...
NO I FUCKING CANNOT.
not even close.
Such attitudes, are in part, why there isn't a bigger pool of highly rated female players. Pool is a game that is gate-kept by men, who will use bizarre reasoning like genetics to explain as to why women are not more competitive with men on the global stage. When in reality, the reasons are deeply ingrained in the culture that surrounds the game.

The problem with women's pro pool is that many get to call themselves pros and they aren't even shortstops.

There was a whole crew of NYC girls I wanted to play giving the 7 and none would play.

I beat every self professed female that I ever met. I'm nobody...maybe 670 on my best day.

 

[Flakeandrun]

She ought to play WNT events...

There's money to be made elsewhere, or she would be I assume.
Faces also need to fit MR's script

The problem with women's pro pool is that many get to call themselves pros and they aren't even shortstops.

Well, the problems with the game in general are deeply routed in its culture. It's a topic far too vast for Monday morning. I have written at length what I think about it previously in other threads, and my thoughts on the subject haven't shifted an inch.

 

[alphadog]

Some of these women are total beasts! I had a good weekend on the table, I took three pro scalps and made a little money.
I also watched a friend of mine who is pro, play for a lot more money with a local coach.
The thing that stuck out to me most over the whole weekend, was that as they had a little break, we were smoking and the coach was watching the female final on his phone.
The way in which he discussed the female game was one of the biggest problems in pool in my opinion (which I have discussed at length in other threads).
"Anyone can beat them, even you could beat them" - he said pointing at me...
NO I FUCKING CANNOT.
not even close.
Such attitudes, are in part, why there isn't a bigger pool of highly rated female players. Pool is a game that is gate-kept by men, who will use bizarre reasoning like genetics to explain as to why women are not more competitive with men on the global stage. When in reality, the reasons are deeply ingrained in the culture that surrounds the game.

Tell your friend they need a better coach.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Tell your friend they need a better coach.

My friend was playing a money game against the well-known and respected coach, who used to be a top player. I think a couple thousand dollars went back and forth between them over the weekend. My friend is a highly capable player (he did say that this particular coach had an insanely good brain for pool, that he wished he could crack open like a walnut and leak out. Coach is an older Taiwanese with more years playing pool than I have been alive)

Such attitudes are generally prevalent, and the expected norm here. I have seen similar attitudes during my time in America too. But Asia in general has a much deeper tie to patriarchal values.

I told him many times over while we were smoking that that the female players would destroy everyone in the smoking room, and he kept batting it off. It was quite jovial energy in the room - I am not about to make an enemy out of such a person because of the way they have been programmed by the societal expectations and deeply ingrained values they have. But I will always challenge such ridiculous attitudes.

 

[straightline]

Man's world, glass ceiling, all's fair in love and war... - all the hard truths still in play.

If you quit, they own...

The views expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of this poster.

 

[sjm]

The problem with women's pro pool is that many get to call themselves pros and they aren't even shortstops.

Why is that a problem? In a sport offering no clear definition of a pro, what difference does it make whether players who play less than pro speed call themselves pros? Yes, there are those that believe that participation in pro events alone is enough to make one a pro, but it does not.

The matter of what constitutes men's pro speed player has arisen often on the forum, and the general feeling is that men's pro speed starts at around Fargo 730. Men's world class, to me, starts at about Fargo 780. I don't recall a thread that attempts to define women's pro speed, but if pressed, I'd say women's pro speed starts at about Fargo 625, with women's world class starting at about Fargo 675.

PS I have never heard the term shortstop applied to a woman player.

 

[skogstokig]

Why is that a problem? In a sport offering no clear definition of a pro, what difference does it make whether players who play less than pro speed call themselves pros? Yes, there are those that believe that participation in pro events alone is enough to make one a pro, but it does not.

The matter of what constitutes men's pro speed player has arisen often on the forum, and the general feeling is that men's pro speed starts at around Fargo 730. Men's world class, to me, starts at about Fargo 780. I don't recall a thread that attempts to define women's pro speed, but if pressed, I'd say women's pro speed starts at about Fargo 625, with women's world class starting at about Fargo 675.

PS I have never heard the term shortstop applied to a woman player.

maybe there should be a financial part of the definition? i know players around 740 that aren't even part time pros.. but idk, against that point there are low fargo "pro" players that seem to get revenue from social media activity and otherwise rather than winnings.

 

[jay helfert]

The problem with women's pro pool is that many get to call themselves pros and they aren't even shortstops.

There was a whole crew of NYC girls I wanted to play giving the 7 and none would play.

I beat every self professed female that I ever met. I'm nobody...maybe 670 on my best day.

Sorry to break it to you but there is a whole crew of Chinese women (Mainland and Taiwan) that could eat you alive!

 

[SBC]

Sorry to break it to you but there is a whole crew of Chinese women (Mainland and Taiwan) that could eat you alive!

Yeah
And I'm specifically not talking about them am I?
Which is exactly my point.

 

[SBC]

Why is that a problem? In a sport offering no clear definition of a pro, what difference does it make whether players who play less than pro speed call themselves pros? Yes, there are those that believe that participation in pro events alone is enough to make one a pro, but it does not.

The matter of what constitutes men's pro speed player has arisen often on the forum, and the general feeling is that men's pro speed starts at around Fargo 730. Men's world class, to me, starts at about Fargo 780. I don't recall a thread that attempts to define women's pro speed, but if pressed, I'd say women's pro speed starts at about Fargo 625, with women's world class starting at about Fargo 675.

PS I have never heard the term shortstop applied to a woman player.

Top 100 USA females range from 743 to 578...with only 38 breaking 600.

Some pretty weak sauce.

 

[sjm]

Top 100 USA females range from 743 to 578...with only 38 breaking 600.

Some pretty weak sauce.

This point is not relevant to the assertion you made that the problem in women's pool is that players that play at less than pro speed are claiming to be pros. You have yet to explain why that's a problem and, personally, I don't see it as a problem.

 

[sjm]

maybe there should be a financial part of the definition? i know players around 740 that aren't even part time pros.. but idk, against that point there are low fargo "pro" players that seem to get revenue from social media activity and otherwise rather than winnings.

An intriguing idea, but it's not quite clear how one would determine which players would qualify as pro under your definition.

 

[SBC]

This point is not relevant to the assertion you made that the problem in women's pool is that players that play at less than pro speed are claiming to be pros. You have yet to explain why that's a problem and, personally, I don't see it as a problem.

Because it is a ridiculous premise to strut around calling yourself a pro when they can't beat an average amateur male.