WPA Bans 245 Players

skogstokig said:
i'm sure he would, if he put his effort into it. that's not the point
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Shane even has got a C8 table (from JOY if memory serves me). But you are right that is not the point. I suggest we simply leave C8 aside, because it is totally irrelevant to the topic I think. Yet some continue beating that horse, for whatever puzzling reason.
 
How funny/pathetic would it be if Predator/WPA staged their own Mosconi Cup type event that was an obvious rip off. I mean they Have Filler and Albin already. It would give some American B-listers the chance they always wanted. Mike DeChaine anyone....
 
Jaden said:
That sure beats the 3 or 4 players that it was before MR's big push
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I think we need to see the numbers. I have a source of info who could provide substantial data, but at the same time I see no point bothering him in regard to our wonderful matter :)
 
Jaden said:
Yeah but their poor leadership is taking away from those events. Look at the world 8 ball this year. It was ho hum...

This is NOT a winning proposition for the WPA, nor for pool. The sooner this is over and the WPA is gone, the better.

Jaden
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WPA has its place: help set the rules and sanction/organize amateur/grassroot-level pool. They really are trying play way above their pay-grade as far as pro pool is concerned. This is kinda why the USGA/PGA got out of pro golf. Other than the USOpen/PGAChampionship they stick to to rules making, amateur golf, running golf shops,teaching, etc. They let pros run pro golf. WPA needs to do the same with pool.
 
Vahmurka said:
If only we had more knowledgeable and insightful people like you, Mr Jewett...
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Knowledge comes from a 30-second search on the innerwebz. ;)

I wonder if the MR/WPA conflict is going to turn out the same as the WPBSA/IBSF conflict in snooker.

The WPBSA (world pro snooker, also WSF, WST and MR related) has all the pro players, like the WNT/MR for pool. The IBSF is the world amateur snooker organization with all the national federations. At one point the two camps were linked together and formed the snooker member on the WCBS. They split about 2018, and the pro organization was kicked out of the WCBS.

In the 2017 World Games (Poland), some pros participated. The top two finishers were Kyren Wilson and Ali Carter, players well known to fans of snooker. In the 2022 World Games in Birmingham, AL, here were the top five finishers:
1. Ka Wai CHEUNG - HKG
2. Abdelrahman SHAHIN - EGY
3. Darren Thomas MORGAN - GBR
4. Ali ALOBAIDLI - QAT
5. Ahsan RAMZAN - PAK

The only name I might recognize on that list is Morgan, who was a pro player 30 years ago, ranked as high as 8th.

The point here is that the IBSF has a function in organizing the amateur sport but does not produce a marketable event. The WST/WPBSA/WSF/MR produces a marketable event but has little interest in developing the amateur game. Just like the two sides in pool.

If pool continues down that path, the split will result in the WPA having zero pro pool players in its events.

I do recognize several other participants in the 2022 WG snooker but only because they now are on the pro tour or they are from the US.
 
Jaden said:
Well with the WPA sanctioning events without the event promoters requesting or approving, does that mean, they'll attempt to ban people from events they have no control over??? LOL!!!!

"You're banned, You're banned, everybody's banned"

Jaden
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I am from Vietnam, and have been following this closely from last year.

The way I see it, WPA has been all about threats, they only target the Hanoi Open. Every other events are sooner or later "sanctioned" whether or not event organizers care to seek sanction or not. A series of Matchroom events have been sanctioned earlier this year, not Hanoi Open. Peri Open was sanctioned a few days before start but still not Hanoi Open. Even Carom promotors pointed out the discrimination towards carom and pool events in Hanoi.

WPA seem to be scared their events will miss a lot of players, especially many of them have voiced their support for WNT... that is why they only targeted Hanoi Open for banning, lots of European players had to withdrew a couple days leading to Hanoi Open

And now they will invent a new "unsanctioned" category of events which still appear on their WPA calendar, this will create another grey area for players and causing even more confusion... but their ranking will be weaker than ever and their influence will diminish

Let's just draw a line and let players choose... black and white and move on
 
i have questions about vietnam

were the spectators pool players
or young people screaming at something?

is booze as
important as it is in
mosconi cup style events?
 
Vahmurka said:
Watching Reyes Cup on Sky Sports, one of the commercials during the break is Christopher Ward watch brand. The ad ends with "Still never heard of us? - Do your research" :)

A little spoiler for your studies: this is the official governing body for pool and some adjacent games over the globe.
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I think it was a rhetorical question, I believe his point was "who cares". What exactly does the WPA do for pool anyways besides take players money??
 
The only reason I started to play pool in 2001 was because I saw the World Pool Championship that was put on by Matchroom. They made the event look so prestigious that it made me immediately try to learn the game of pool. While the event is WPA sanctioned, I can’t say that the WPA is really helping players at least in Canada get involved in the game. Exposure of all of these new events added in the last couple of years by Matchroom is bringing new people into the game, and I can’t say that the WPA is doing the same.
 
Swighey said:
It's a little more than zero. It's a completely daft version of pool but it's surprisingly good and maybe you should give it a go.

But yeah, the WPA has it's fingers in it because the WPA has lost any soul it ever had. It will lose Heyball soon enough too....
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Heyball is completely opposite of what the rest of the world is doing. Other sports are looking to speed up their game to keep fans engaged, each generation is less and less willing to invest so much time viewing a game/sport. Heyball may be fun to play but it falls far short when trying to watch.
 
One thing i think Americans are overlooking in the WPA debate is that through the EPBF and country specific organizations, the WPA is everything. Our local leagues, regional ranking tournaments and Euro Tour which are the breeding and proving grounds for upcoming players are all under the umbrella of the WPA and their regional affiliates. Locally the KNBB provides training for upcoming players and limited funding for pro players, our membership dues pay for rather than being a profit making business for league owners. When people point out that Europe is producing better and better players compared to the US, this is why, its the WPA, EPBF, and country specific federations, matchroom is a for profit organization and wont be doing any of this.

The BCA in the US doesnt really provide anything similar having sold off the BCA pool league 20 years ago to cue sports, so its understandable that this isnt something people from the US take into account.
 
A couple of opinions from me:

1) What gets youngsters involved is not organization by a governing body (local, national, international). It's seeing something they want to become. They see the "stars" (whether local in the club, or national/international on broadcast) and want to become a star one day. Then they will seek out how to do that. If MR never had a Jr event (which they of course do), they would still be growing pool for the next generation, by creating interest for the next generation.

2) The money right now in MR events is not that high. I'd say it's about on par with the WPA events. However, that's the wrong measuring stick. Where we should be looking is the fans. How many fans are showing up in person to MR events vs WPA events? How fun is it as a viewer to watch the live streams from home for MR vs WPA? How many advertisements is each group getting on the streams? How much social media interest is MR generating vs WPA? Those points should be the measuring stick, not the immediate cash purse.

MR is in another planet in all of those points. THAT is what will lead to growth of the game, which will trickle down to more prestige for pros, more money for pros, more pool halls for us, more everything all around.
 
zetetikos said:
One thing i think Americans are overlooking in the WPA debate is that through the EPBF and country specific organizations, the WPA is everything. Our local leagues, regional ranking tournaments and Euro Tour which are the breeding and proving grounds for upcoming players are all under the umbrella of the WPA and their regional affiliates. Locally the KNBB provides training for upcoming players and limited funding for pro players, our membership dues pay for rather than being a profit making business for league owners. When people point out that Europe is producing better and better players compared to the US, this is why, its the WPA, EPBF, and country specific federations, matchroom is a for profit organization and wont be doing any of this.

The BCA in the US doesnt really provide anything similar having sold off the BCA pool league 20 years ago to cue sports, so its understandable that this isnt something people from the US take into account.
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Eurotour is now all Predator tables. I wonder if Predator will tell the EPBF to go pound sand.
 
zetetikos said:
One thing i think Americans are overlooking in the WPA debate is that through the EPBF and country specific organizations, the WPA is everything. Our local leagues, regional ranking tournaments and Euro Tour which are the breeding and proving grounds for upcoming players are all under the umbrella of the WPA and their regional affiliates. Locally the KNBB provides training for upcoming players and limited funding for pro players, our membership dues pay for rather than being a profit making business for league owners. When people point out that Europe is producing better and better players compared to the US, this is why, its the WPA, EPBF, and country specific federations, matchroom is a for profit organization and wont be doing any of this.

The BCA in the US doesnt really provide anything similar having sold off the BCA pool league 20 years ago to cue sports, so its understandable that this isnt something people from the US take into account.
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I can see the federations (EPBF, KNBB, etc) doing a lot for upcoming players, but the WPA? What exactly is the WPA doing for these same players? They don't actually promote anything, put on any events, all they do is "sanction". Am I missing something? Does the WPA fund local ranking tournaments or tours?
 
zetetikos said:
One thing i think Americans are overlooking in the WPA debate is that through the EPBF and country specific organizations, the WPA is everything. Our local leagues, regional ranking tournaments and Euro Tour which are the breeding and proving grounds for upcoming players are all under the umbrella of the WPA and their regional affiliates. Locally the KNBB provides training for upcoming players and limited funding for pro players, our membership dues pay for rather than being a profit making business for league owners. When people point out that Europe is producing better and better players compared to the US, this is why, its the WPA, EPBF, and country specific federations, matchroom is a for profit organization and wont be doing any of this.

The BCA in the US doesnt really provide anything similar having sold off the BCA pool league 20 years ago to cue sports, so its understandable that this isnt something people from the US take into account.
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this is true. it's also true that the philippines is achieving the same, or better, without any of this structure. there are many ways to skin a cat.

with that said, i wouldn't want to be without the national federation structure or the EPBF for that matter. but that certainly doesn't mean i think they should run pro pool in a qatari warehouse or slovakian conference center
 
skogstokig said:
this is true. it's also true that the philippines is achieving the same, or better, without any of this structure. there are many ways to skin a cat.
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The Filippino pool scene is not quite a fitting example, for the reason 'biljar' has evolved like that for many years - through gambling one another that is. Despite signs in local pool halls "Gambling not allowed", lol, to follow suit of local laws. The US environment developed pretty much the same way.
On the contrary, take for instance the Germans like Ralf Souquet and Thorsten Hohmann, both of whom have never gambled pool in their entire life. I believe that's a cultural thing, so in Europe nope, this cat can not be skinned exactly like at The 1000 Islands.
 
Badpenguin said:
I can see the federations (EPBF, KNBB, etc) doing a lot for upcoming players, but the WPA? What exactly is the WPA doing for these same players? They don't actually promote anything, put on any events, all they do is "sanction". Am I missing something? Does the WPA fund local ranking tournaments or tours?
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Yes you do miss a tiny bit, just like many more AZBers who continue guessing over the same question "What WPA has done for the players". I think one should check the overall global structure for a major worldwide sport. Not necessarily pool, but take a quick look at soccer, basketball, volleyball, handball, powerlifting, etc.
Maybe then?...
 
Badpenguin said:
I can see the federations (EPBF, KNBB, etc) doing a lot for upcoming players, but the WPA? What exactly is the WPA doing for these same players? They don't actually promote anything, put on any events, all they do is "sanction". Am I missing something? Does the WPA fund local ranking tournaments or tours?
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The WPA is the national federations. They are all members of the WPA. Any work done by the national federations is work done under/by the WPA.

The WPA itself is the Board and a maybe few staff. It has few resources to actually do anything.
 
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