Who says barbox 8-ball is harder than 9-foot?

Poolmanis

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I play 8-ball very seldom but it seem to be my best game somehow..
I often hear 8-ball is harder game on barbox than 9-footer.
I claim it is not true from my own perspective. Proved it again to myself with race to 13, 8-ball match on 7ft Diamond versus strong U.S barbox specialist.
It was played on Shooter´s pool Billiard simulation where I am worse than real life because you have to control speed on mouse speed and it does not have feel what playing on real cue and balls give.
I hear barbox is harder because speed is harder to control and clusters.. How the hell match stats are then like this? :D

p.s Game does not track safeties properly to stats. They are always 0. Also it counts all 1st inning clearances as run outs. Then it shows my personal stats all run outs and run outs from break...

So 2 games from 21 was more than one inning total from both. Both of my 4 packs ended with dry break.. :(
8ball stats.jpg
 
One year at Derby City (approx. 2019), Filler tried a race to 30 in the action room with Corey Deuel on the bar box. Corey, a bar box world beater, won and it was not close.

Eight ball on the nine-footer is, essentially, a breaking contest, because the runouts are so simple. On the bar box, where there is more congestion, there's a little more cluster-breaking and a little more defense involved, so it is a slightly different game.

Whether it's harder or not is arguable, but eight ball is a different game on a bar box.
 
Last edited:
You may have proven it to yourself, but a simulation isn’t proof. SVB, Bergman, Sky, Corey for moderate cash might be a better simulation/ test. This isn’t a knock - you are an excellent player. I didn’t see you in FargoRate, but my guess is after a couple of sessions with good barbox players near your Fargo/ level you might not think it is real easy. You may not like the game, but you might see the challenge differently.
 
JPB2 said:
You may have proven it to yourself, but a simulation isn’t proof. SVB, Bergman, Sky, Corey for moderate cash might be a better simulation/ test. This isn’t a knock - you are an excellent player. I didn’t see you in FargoRate, but my guess is after a couple of sessions with good barbox players near your Fargo/ level you might not think it is real easy. You may not like the game, but you might see the challenge differently.
Click to expand...
I played this year also in team league 8ball because(after 20+ years not doing it :)) they asked me to reinforce their team. They want to get Vegas. I think I have played around 40 racks and missed one jump. So it is not just simulation .. I just claim game is easier than 9-foot overall.
pocketing balls is a lot easier and bumpin to balls is easier because they are close etc.. Speed is easier to judge because travel distance is less. Those things make game overall easier than 9-footers even you get little more complicated racks.
One thing is if it is played on bad table, balls and bad racks then of course breaks are more dry and leaving horrible layouts. But it would be even more difficult on 9-footer if have same shitty conditions.
 
Yeah, I think the 9’ tables test certain things more and a better overall test. So what?

Bar table 8 ball is
It’s its own thing. You can say it is “ easy” but so what. Match up against a good bar table player who is pretty equal to you and play. You may find things “easy” in isolation. But get back to me if it is easy to win. It requires skill, the general pool skills plus its own tests. Maybe this is a bad analogy, but it is a little like saying hurdles are easier than high jumping because the bar is lower. They are different. Both are hard to compete in. Or shot put is easier than weightlifting because the shot weighs less than what guys clean and jerk.

Yes, you are an excellent player and very good all around. I’m sure you play it well. And I am not saying bar table 8 ball is the be -all and end- all of cue sports. Neither is snooker. People have their preferences. 3 cushion is deferent from balkline, neither is easy. Some prefer one or the other.

So I probably sound too American. Come play some real events or bet real money in a bar or poolroom that has the short tracks. You can beat plenty of people, but I am saying match up with people about your speed and see if it is easy to get the win

Because pool is, in the end, a head to head competition. It’s match play not stroke play. It doesn’t matter if the course is easy, it is the same for both players.
 
Every game ever invented is easier on a 7' table. I still can't believe anyone thinks otherwise. The whole congestion thing being a limiting factor might come into play on something tiny like a toy 4' table. A 7' table still has miles of room to move around.

Pick a game, be it banks, 9 ball, one hole, 8 ball, straight pool, anything. Play some form of ghost on it for a few hours. The 7' scores will be way better than the 9' scores.
 
i've never heard a pro make the claim that it's harder on a barbox. but i think the main point is that for pro level players, 8-ball on any table is too easy. you have to throw in a wrench somehow to make it tougher, which is why promoters have stuff like short shot clock (ultimate pool) or rounded, tight pockets (heyball).
 
Poolmanis said:
I play 8-ball very seldom but it seem to be my best game somehow..
I often hear 8-ball is harder game on barbox than 9-footer.
I claim it is not true from my own perspective. Proved it again to myself with race to 13, 8-ball match on 7ft Diamond versus strong U.S barbox specialist.
It was played on Shooter´s pool Billiard simulation where I am worse than real life because you have to control speed on mouse speed and it does not have feel what playing on real cue and balls give.
I hear barbox is harder because speed is harder to control and clusters.. How the hell match stats are then like this? :D

p.s Game does not track safeties properly to stats. They are always 0. Also it counts all 1st inning clearances as run outs. Then it shows my personal stats all run outs and run outs from break...

So 2 games from 21 was more than one inning total from both. Both of my 4 packs ended with dry break.. :(
View attachment 795269
Click to expand...
you got to do many matches to get over all stats Not just one. all I have is personal experience as someone who doesn’t play on 9 footers very often I can run racks of 8 ball on them but will struggle with 9 ball compared to playing 9 ball on a bar box.
 
I'm willing to bet that your break and run-out percentage is lower on the bar box than it is on the 9 foot.

Play 20 games of both and see which one you bnr out more in.
 
Poolmanis said:
I play 8-ball very seldom but it seem to be my best game somehow..
I often hear 8-ball is harder game on barbox than 9-footer.
Click to expand...

Statements like "8-Ball is harder/easier on barbox" imply it is a one dimensional issue (i.e., same answer for everyone).

I think it is better thought of as a two-dimensional issue, like below. The horizontal axis is potting skill, which probably pretty much tracks Fargo Rating. So imagine on the left is rating of 550 and on the right is rating of 800 and it tracks your percentage running out with no congestion on whatever table. The vertical axis is your relative skill at 8-Ball--choosing patterns, bumping balls around, and generally dealing with congestion.

Top players, who run out open tables with high percentage even on a tight 9-foot table, are going to prefer 9-foot tables regardless of their 8-Ball skill. I, on the other hand, am pretty far to the left on the potting and decent at the 8-Ball specific skills. Small table for me.


1733830823139.png
 
trob said:
you got to do many matches to get over all stats Not just one. all I have is personal experience as someone who doesn’t play on 9 footers very often I can run racks of 8 ball on them but will struggle with 9 ball compared to playing 9 ball on a bar box.
Click to expand...
Hard to get stats from long time, because i play 99% of my games on 9-footer. So i have very little experience from 7-footers. That is also why i feel i should get worse stats but 7-foot play is so easy that does not happen.
Last time i played 7-ft 9-ball i was couple years ago, in once in year held 7-foot 9-ball tournament that is handicapped. I did okay. Finished high and beat Pro Petri Makkonen in race to 10. He made 7 run outs in that match but i won. Later in tourney was auction to 4 players to buy back and he bought himself back and he won tournament...
 
Poolmanis said:
Hard to get stats from long time, because i play 99% of my games on 9-footer. So i have very little experience from 7-footers. That is also why i feel i should get worse stats but 7-foot play is so easy that does not happen.
Last time i played 7-ft 9-ball i was couple years ago, in once in year held 7-foot 9-ball tournament that is handicapped. I did okay. Finished high and beat Pro Petri Makkonen in race to 10. He made 7 run outs in that match but i won. Later in tourney was auction to 4 players to buy back and he bought himself back and he won tournament...
Click to expand...
Feel free to offer yourself up for some two man tournaments with any of the top bar box players, I'm sure they would oblige you quickly.
 
I need to fly in this 'manis cat and try some serious sandbagging. Sure we could snap off a few before they catch on. Bro you'll need a good disguise tho. ;) Shit, you play really sporty.
 
I play a lot of 9 foot 8 ball. When I do end up on the 7 ft Valley, I ran out more than twice as often. Because:
  • My break is poor, I'm maybe 60% to make a ball on the Gold Crown, but >80% on the bar box.
  • As IUTBR posted above - it's just easier to make balls on the small table; no long shots, pockets w/no shelves.
  • So because of 2, breaking up clusters is easier - you're more likely to have some kind of makeable shot since almost anything you can see is makeable. Plus it's easier to hit things since you're always closer.
Disclaimer: I have never played on a Diamond bar box. And I'm nowhere as good as Good Players, I play a bit south of 600. So Mike Page's theory applies as well.
 
Poolmanis said:
Hard to get stats from long time, because i play 99% of my games on 9-footer. So i have very little experience from 7-footers. That is also why i feel i should get worse stats but 7-foot play is so easy that does not happen.
Last time i played 7-ft 9-ball i was couple years ago, in once in year held 7-foot 9-ball tournament that is handicapped. I did okay. Finished high and beat Pro Petri Makkonen in race to 10. He made 7 run outs in that match but i won. Later in tourney was auction to 4 players to buy back and he bought himself back and he won tournament...
Click to expand...
OK. Petri Makkonen is 794. Sounds like you rate yourself below him, but are competitive and can beat him sometimes. So in our simulation we will have you tour the US and play bar table 8 ball against guys around 750 FR, some lower. You will spend some time in the Midwest, TX, OK. Here’s my lineup for you.

Danny Olson, Chip Compton, Justin Hall, Shane McMinn, TJ Steinhaus, Jesse Engel, Jeremy Jones, John Gabriel, Charlie Bryant, Dustin Gunia, CJ Wiley, and at 700 for old times sake Dave Matlock.

How easy do you think it will be to have a winning record against that crew over a good amount of play? Easy game? That’s what I’m saying. That list eliminates SVB, Sky, Billy Thorpe, Pinegar, Steyer, Corey, and a few others with bar table experience. We could add guys like Rory Hendrickson and I’m sure others. So yeah, you may find it easier to break and run. But they will too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top