Chohan-Bergman Match
- Thread starter krelldog
- Start date
And all the people said, "Amen".
I am on "Team Lou" in this debate. People are so used to 4.5 inch to 4.25 inch Diamonds, I think they forget and / or don't appreciate how soft 5 inch GC play in comparison. Modern players would never miss in the old conditions...they hardly miss now on equipment that is much less forgiving.
Not only do I think Justin's out was better than "standard", I don't see too many people mentioning the mental toughness Justin showed to stay in the match and grind after getting off to such a tough start. Justin really showed some skill and heart all in one match.
In a couple of games I watched that Justin won he made a few pretty big errors, but once the error is made it's like you can't tell it happened in subsequent shots. He doesn't get too down on himself, and I he doesn't start losing control of his emotions or decision making process when things get really hard.
I think there is a lot for Justin to be proud of in this match.
kollegedave
whoa folks,
ronnie played lights out and ran out from incredible spots when he was younger. i saw it. i knew him, and i am a one pocket player unlike the 9 ball kings here. except for a few.
ronnie was the tony of the past. and absolutely no one could beat him in his prime in a long race.
and in the past the pockets were most times bigger, but the tables were much slower with dirty balls and sub standard equipment.
running out was tougher then it is now. the balls didnt break open unless you wacked them.
that run out was a tough one for sure but not a great one to be remembered as something special except for him being on the hill.
if you are or were playing this run out or from that position and not a top pro it would be an absolute run out and maybe the greatest of your career so far. but that isnt the case here, and give jay credit as he knows infinitely more about the players than just about anyone here.
ronnie played lights out and ran out from incredible spots when he was younger. i saw it. i knew him, and i am a one pocket player unlike the 9 ball kings here. except for a few.
ronnie was the tony of the past. and absolutely no one could beat him in his prime in a long race.
and in the past the pockets were most times bigger, but the tables were much slower with dirty balls and sub standard equipment.
running out was tougher then it is now. the balls didnt break open unless you wacked them.
that run out was a tough one for sure but not a great one to be remembered as something special except for him being on the hill.
if you are or were playing this run out or from that position and not a top pro it would be an absolute run out and maybe the greatest of your career so far. but that isnt the case here, and give jay credit as he knows infinitely more about the players than just about anyone here.
Well said!
By 1974-5 RA was through as a top player. He drank and ate himself into a physical wreck. Sure, he had flashbacks but mostly it was easier to work other angles at getting the money. He played One Pocket like American Snooker on a tight 5X10 table. Lots of innings with few runouts. Ronnie was famous at losing your money only to go back the next day and take the cash down. Horses became his favorite game by this time.
alex deserves mentioning when it comes to routinely running out 9+ balls. love efren but when it comes to that part of the game it's alex for me. (with the reservation that alex is a player of the streaming era and i haven't seen efren play many money matches, giving up big spots etc)
I don't know about the cloth and balls argument.
My recollection, from when he came to STL in the 90's, was Ronnie carried his own set of balls and went around to all the rooms (back then we had like a dozen) to choose which joint had the cloth and pockets he deemed best suited to his game -- then he set up camp at that room.
I know this because I was knocking them around one day in one room when he and a traveling companion came in. I was actually kinda shocked to see him walk in because, no doubt, he was a legend. I nodded to him and he nodded back while he inspected the tables and cloth. He especially didn't like what the tables were covered in at that room and repeatedly asked his buddy, "What kind of cloth is this?!" Eventually he settled on room across town that was not particularly known as an action spot but he deemed it best for his purposes and made several significant scores there (primarily from his local backers).
Lou Figueroa
I only watched RA playing DD in that big race (absolutely worth watching by the way). In that match, he had lots of big runs and made them all look easy. He kicked more balls in than I've ever seen.
yea ronnie brought his own balls later in life. but a couple of those balls were not quite the same as the others.
most anyone that played him or had any money dealing with him were just star struck people whose money would soon be transferred to his pockets.
it wasnt hidden knowledge so you got what you paid for.
and as said by the mid 70,s to 80 he was on his fast downswing as a player.
most anyone that played him or had any money dealing with him were just star struck people whose money would soon be transferred to his pockets.
it wasnt hidden knowledge so you got what you paid for.
and as said by the mid 70,s to 80 he was on his fast downswing as a player.
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I watched that match a while back and don't recall it playing out as you do. My impression was Ronnie was way past his prime and DD outplayed him (out moved him and was first to the shot) but found a way to lose.
It wasn't anything close to what we now consider high level one-pocket, but if you knew what to look for, you could tell they both played really well at some point previous to this match.
I watched it several years ago so I may be off (I generally can't recall what I had for lunch).
From my memory though, I recall DD appearing like the better pool player, but RA out moving him.
One thing that sticks out in my memory is when RA kicked for balls. I'm not talking balls a foot from his pocket and an eighth inch off the rail, I'm talking the other side of the table. I recall him making most and putting all the rest very, very close. You don't see that today.
Ronnie's prime was from the mid 60's to early and mid 80's. By 1987 when this match was played Ronnie had probably fallen at least one to two balls below his best level. But he was still a tough opponent based on his overall One Pocket knowledge, creativity and kicking ability. At that point in time Danny was still running hundreds at 14.1 so he could still great pool, but Ronnie out maneuvered him in some critical spots and won games it looked like he had lost. The match went down to the fifth set and was over ten hours long in total. There is some great and very interesting pool on display here. One of my productions that I'm most proud of. This was pre Accu-Stats days.
This match was played on a beautiful Anniversary table with exactly 4.5" corners. It played moderately tough but very fair. There were no roll offs anywhere, and the banks played true off all rails. Probably a better table then 99% of what we play on today.
P.S. Danny was the house pro at the Golden Eight Ball and this was his home court, but Ronnie had many of his Phoenix area friends in attendance so he was comfortable playing there as well. This match was no joke! The money was real, a very big bet for that era. And the competition was intense. After it was over Danny went into the office and didn't come out for over an hour. He was completely crestfallen that he had lost to Ronnie again.
Rub it up and run it back!
That shit is what makes it a helluva show, no matter who's shooting!
danny was on his downside too in the late 80's. we forget sometime how farther time takes his toll on us.
he was a straight pool player anyway. as well as a superb athlete when he was young. not many could have a chance against him at anything he put his mind to getting good at.
ronnie was shot by the mid 80.s as far as i think in being top pro. still super but not top anymore.
i took him off for all he had on the putting green in vegas at the sahara. a good score though. he was pretty fat then and not so well balanced but of course he still had his gift of gab.
golf was his main hustle then but he had to set people up. and was good at that.
he was a straight pool player anyway. as well as a superb athlete when he was young. not many could have a chance against him at anything he put his mind to getting good at.
ronnie was shot by the mid 80.s as far as i think in being top pro. still super but not top anymore.
i took him off for all he had on the putting green in vegas at the sahara. a good score though. he was pretty fat then and not so well balanced but of course he still had his gift of gab.
golf was his main hustle then but he had to set people up. and was good at that.
Nobody was giving Ronnie any weight until the late 80's. I think Allen Hopkins was the first guy I saw offer Ronnie 9-8, 8-7. In his prime Ronnie would have had to spot Danny 8-7, 9-7. As for Danny he was still beating guys for the cash. Maybe not the top guys but some good players. I bet with him (1,000) in a Ten Ahead match with Rich Geiler. They were playing ten ahead for $10,000 (5K each). This was in Reno around 1990. Rich had him down nine games twice and Danny came back to get the dough. Wade Crane was in with us for 1K and Danny took the rest.
When the Golden Eight Ball moved across the street into their new room, it became one of the best rooms in the country. I miss that place