Fargo Match.... 679 vs 851

We do? I watched some of her recent play, and the one thing that stood out is that she is hitting certain shots exactly like Joshua Filler does, It is obvious that he has been working with her. She went from being a middle of the road female player, to going deep in the DCC 9 ball, and winning a women's Eurotour event. She won some scotch doubles tournament, and contributed quite a bit to the Filler's 2024 yearly income. I have no doubts She is a legitimate 700+ player.

she is kristinas equal imo, about 740. maybe higher because kristina has a backlog too, and has improved much the last 2-3 years. another example is mickey krause who currently plays at a 800+ level.
 
Agree there COULD be hidden "structure" in a player's performance. A player with a Fargo Rating of XXX could perform at XXX+50 against strong opponents and XXX-50 against weak opponents. We just find no evidence for it. It really requires a lot of data to nail things like this down.
I just took the player with the most games in FargoRate, Ken J from Oklahoma, and divided his games into 6 4000+ game chunks, separated by the rating of his opponent. On one end hee has 4000+ games against opponents who average 663. On the other end he has 4000+ games against opponents averaging 405. We can compute a "performance rating" for each chunk (and the ones in between. None differ by more than 5 points from his 657 Fargo Rating.

This is just one player. But we've yet to find surprises for things like this.
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Thanks for joining in and explaining it's certainly possible.

Intuitively, we all know that some players tend to fall apart playing much better players and some players manage to elevate their games. Likewise, on the other side of rhe spectrum, some elite players playing much weaker opponents only care about winning and don't play their best game simply because they don't need to. On the other hand, some elite players bare down on everyone and try to get the whitewash regardless of how weak their opponent is.

Also, because the sample size in your example is so large, I think there's a good chance those small mathematical differences would show a statistical difference (based on the typical alpha = .05).

If we wanted to prove or disprove my theory that some players, on average, play above or below their rating depending on the opponents rating, looking at the extremes may be the way to go.
 
Agree there COULD be hidden "structure" in a player's performance. A player with a Fargo Rating of XXX could perform at XXX+50 against strong opponents and XXX-50 against weak opponents. We just find no evidence for it. It really requires a lot of data to nail things like this down.
I just took the player with the most games in FargoRate, Ken J from Oklahoma, and divided his games into 6 4000+ game chunks, separated by the rating of his opponent. On one end hee has 4000+ games against opponents who average 663. On the other end he has 4000+ games against opponents averaging 405. We can compute a "performance rating" for each chunk (and the ones in between. None differ by more than 5 points from his 657 Fargo Rating.

This is just one player. But we've yet to find surprises for things like this.
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Another point, I believe few would state all players play their speed, on average, regardless of the pressure or lack of pressure applied from their opponent's speed.

I know when I played a few world champions, I was so nervous my hands were shaking and my brain stopped working. I did not play my regular speed. Am I the only one? No one else??

If your data hasn't shown such patterns yet, someone just hasn't looked hard enough yet. Of course, when discussing something like this the first thing we need to decide is "how small a difference do we want to be able to detect?" And "how confident do we want to be?"

Do you think those are all fair statements?
 
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Thanks for joining in and explaining it's certainly possible.

Intuitively, we all know that some players tend to fall apart playing much better players and some players manage to elevate their games. Likewise, on the other side of rhe spectrum, some elite players playing much weaker opponents only care about winning and don't play their best game simply because they don't need to. On the other hand, some elite players bare down on everyone and try to get the whitewash regardless of how weak their opponent is.

Also, because the sample size in your example is so large, I think there's a good chance those small mathematical differences would show a statistical difference (based on the typical alpha = .05).

If we wanted to prove or disprove my theory that some players, on average, play above or below their rating depending on the opponents rating, looking at the extremes may be the way to go.
He told you you are wrong and you're doubling down. Bold move cotton
 
Another point, I believe few would state all players play their speed, on average, regardless of the pressure or lack of pressure applied from their opponent's speed.

I know when I played a few world champions, I was so nervous my hands were shaking and my brain stopped working. I did not play my regular speed. Am I the only one? No one else??

If your data hasn't shown such patterns yet, someone just hasn't looked hard enough yet. Of course, when discussing something like this the first thing we need to decide is "how small a difference do we want to be able to detect?" And "how confident do we want to be?"

Do you think those are all fair statements?
I don't know if your hands are shaking, but your brain certainly has stopped working and all you're doing is posting on a billiard forum. I think we've found that pattern you're looking for
 
she is kristinas equal imo, about 740. maybe higher because kristina has a backlog too, and has improved much the last 2-3 years. another example is mickey krause who currently plays at a 800+ level.
The effects you are talking about are there. But they are smaller than you estimate.
 
He told you you are wrong and you're doubling down. Bold move cotton
Man, besides having a miserable disposition, you're really dense. He absolutely never said I was wrong. You add nothing interesting or intelligent to this forum. Isn't there someplace else you could go to annoy others?
 
Man, besides having a miserable disposition, you're really dense. He absolutely never said I was wrong. You add nothing interesting or intelligent to this forum. Isn't there someplace else you could go to annoy others?
He clearly told you that you are wrong and you call me dense?

Agree there COULD be hidden "structure" in a player's performance. A player with a Fargo Rating of XXX could perform at XXX+50 against strong opponents and XXX-50 against weak opponents. We just find no evidence for it.

Unfortunately for you, his post is right here^^^.

He said "you're wrong" as nice as anybody could. Or maybe saying "we just find NO EVIDENCE for it" has an entirely different meaning in whatever language you are speaking, cause it sure as hell isn't english
Tell us again how I'm the dense one
 
The old guy that I love watching most is Tony Drago. I actually think Filler modeled his style after Tony, at least a little bit. There are some old matches where you can see a very young Josh and Pia, front-center row watching him play. :)
 
He clearly told you that you are wrong and you call me dense?

Agree there COULD be hidden "structure" in a player's performance. A player with a Fargo Rating of XXX could perform at XXX+50 against strong opponents and XXX-50 against weak opponents. We just find no evidence for it.

Unfortunately for you, his post is right here^^^.

He said "you're wrong" as nice as anybody could. Or maybe saying "we just find NO EVIDENCE for it" has an entirely different meaning in whatever language you are speaking, cause it sure as hell isn't english
Tell us again how I'm the dense one
Step back and listen to your argument. You really believe all pool players, at all levels, play their regular game regardless of their opponent's level of play? Even as bullheaded as you are, I know you don't believe that.

I love Faro Mike and what his rating system has done for pool. But I'm not sure how hard Fargo has looked for the statistical difference we're talking about. I don't even know how he could make the claim he did without stating how big a difference they were testing for.
Funny thing about performing a hypothesis test on two groups. If the sample size is large enough, any mathematical difference will be statistically different.

Hopefully Mike can pipe back in and explain further.
 
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Step back and listen to your argument. You really believe all pool players, at all levels, play their regular game regardless of their opponent's level of play? Even as bullheaded as you are, I know you don't believe that.

I love Faro Mike and what his rating system has done for pool. But I'm not sure how hard Fargo has looked for the statistical difference we're talking about. I don't even know how he could make the claim he did without stating how big a difference they were testing for.
Funny thing about performing a hypothesis test on two groups. If the sample size is large enough, any mathematical difference will be statistically different.

Hopefully Mike can pipe back in and explain further.
He gave you an example, did you not look at his post? In the example the person played within 5 points of his Fargo on all those matches.

You believe whatever you want but Mike is telling you and you refuse to listen.

I'd say that make you the dense one - no matter what he tells you, you refuse to accept the evidence.

I'm done talking to you
 
He gave you an example, did you not look at his post? In the example the person played within 5 points of his Fargo on all those matches.

You believe whatever you want but Mike is telling you and you refuse to listen.

I'd say that make you the dense one - no matter what he tells you, you refuse to accept the evidence.

I'm done talking to you
Holy crap. Not even you could believe a sample size of one rules out the existence of any.
 
The old guy that I love watching most is Tony Drago. I actually think Filler modeled his style after Tony, at least a little bit. There are some old matches where you can see a very young Josh and Pia, front-center row watching him play. :)

he still plays a little, has participated in some WNT events and also the annual senior snooker wcship
 
Gorst just played Earl a few days ago in an exhibition.

Earl won 9 ball 9-3
Gorst won 8 ball 5-3

Total session score of Earl 12 Fedor 8.

 
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