He's been playing good lately. I was told that He'll be in Vegas for the 10 Ball Open so keep an eye out.
Seeking Input: Archer ‘93 vs. Today
- Thread starter Callaghan
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He's been playing good lately. I was told that He'll be in Vegas for the 10 Ball Open so keep an eye out.
True enough. Raises the question: How would today's players fair against the road warriors of old in real world conditions, not the sheltered hot houses they usually play in? Lassiter, Hall, Puckett, an easy half dozen more. When these people walked into a strange place they weren't scouting for an easy game, just prey that would bet enough to make the action worthwhile.
Hu
needn't look any further than the pinoy rotation money matches on youtube. grimey star tables, chalk all over the place, they still play jam up. and often you haven't heard of the players
I say they'd eat very well and sleep comfortably. Add that to the fact most of them don't have the "habits"
JMHO
With that being said, we just don't have any characters that make the game larger than life
Yeah, I find those games occasionally. The Pinoys are where we were at fifty or seventy-five years ago. Fierce battles with a rail full of people watching. They may be playing for low stakes but the stakes may be big to them. There was about a six month period in my life when my wheels were dead and I had just lost somebody close to me. I was at one of the lowest points in my life and didn't care enough to dig my way out. I had to walk a mile and a half to the nearest bar with a table to win enough to eat that day. If it was raining heavily, not uncommon in South Louisiana, I didn't eat that day. I usually hung on to enough for quarters on the table and a dollar beer back then to keep up the illusion I was there for the beer and not primarily for the pool. If not I would find a way to make a few dollars in the neighborhood. The first swallow of beer would hurt going down and I could feel the cold liquid all the way down to my empty stomach or further. Those three dollar games were important then! One of the few air barrels I ever fired was for three dollars.
The characters from yesteryear didn't always eat well or sleep comfortably. One reason today's players think the road is impossible is that they are chasing a lifestyle that only existed in tales. The old road players favored big cars. Fine road machines but the other reason for them was that they slept more comfortably than smaller vehicles. One reason I didn't hit the road with Danny Medina when he wanted me to was that he was driving a Malibu and I was driving a single seat pick-up. I was too tall to sleep fairly comfortably in the Malibu and the pick-up while I slept very well in it, only slept one!
A couple road tricks: The notell motels with doors to the parking lot for every room were handy. Cruise through and find a door that wasn't closed well. Was usually good for a few hours sleep in the bed that hadn't been used and a shower. Places that sold fast food and bakeries were usually dumping things just before closing. A fine time to score food, sometimes a lot of food, cheap!
The real life of a road player was boom and bust. I did it in a small way when I needed to pay bills. I would leave out usually needing a thousand or fifteen hundred back then, once in awhile I was just in the mood for a road trip. The road trips lasted until I had the money I needed. Usually a few days to a few weeks, once a few hours! On the road the first thing was to keep a gambling stake, then the vehicle ate, I was the bottom of the totem pole! I had a thirsty 454 under the hood which came in handy when I needed to get out of Dodge in a hurry. Fortunately my road trips were when gas was fifty cents to a dollar a gallon.
I was lucky to only have alcohol as a vice. I didn't smoke and didn't do any hard drugs. I didn't gamble at anything other than pool either. Sometimes the ponies when I was flush but purely for recreation. I would put twenty or forty in a front pocket and if I lost that betting was over. Let me actually come out ahead on the ponies long run, something few could say! I knew jockeys and trainers that lost every dime they had on the ponies, enough to keep me from thinking my little knowledge was enough long term.
There was an interview with Danny Medina in his later years. He acknowledged the road was a hard hard life and he was one of the best. The road players did start keeping books on the locals and swapping information which made things easier. Knowing they came with information, I didn't hesitate to dime them if a friend was involved. I did see how things were going first. I have seen the local playing way over their head sometimes and making a very nice score!
Gamblers are eternal optimists. Great to listen to or read the stories but many should begin, "Once upon a time ..." One bragged about never losing on here. A few weeks later he was posting a story about getting busted. Nobody won all the time.
Hu
I have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed the evolution of this discussion thread. The original questions have been addressed above and beyond….. and all in a highly relevant fashion I would say. I think the conclusion that I’m formulating now, is that there are probably no true criteria upon which we all could agree that would help us find a way to evaluate players of today versus players of yesterday. Nostalgia, for better or worse, quite beautifully obfuscates objective evaluation. But at the end of the day, maybe the objective evaluation that I might have sought at the start of the discussion, is moot. I think it’s about embracing the way things are now, and keeping that compartmentalized against a view or a vision of an era that, through rose colored glasses, appears flawless. Even though in reality, flaws abound.
8intheside
Well-known member
I agree. IMO shane would be a slight favorite over everyone today, especially 10ball.
Filler and Gorst have been #1 and #2 on the money list for three years now and even in 2025, they are #1 and #2. If Shane's the best, let him come off the stall and start showing it at the biggest 9ball and 10ball events. Until he does, he'll be looking up at the other two.
You have a point but besides age, I don't think Shane is as hungry as he once was. He has nothing to prove and I think he is coasting a bit with half his mind on retirement or semi-retirement. He might not be the best but I think he would be better if something put the fire back in his belly. With a hundred thousand dollar bounty to do it I wouldn't be surprised to see Shane set a high run record. Not much incentive right now.
Speaking of Shane, remember when he posted a little on here but his mother or grandmother posted more!
Hu
8intheside
Well-known member
I've heard this argument/excuse before and I'm not buying it. Others have, quite reasonably, suggested that Shane is playing the best pool of his life, and I believe so, too. It is just harder to win majors than it ever has been. Filler has probably won almost 80% of his 9ball matches against Shane in his career, and it is no fluke. Shane has never played 9ball at the level we have seen from Filler, and no amount of hunger or desire would change that. I suspect it has happened, but I can't remember even one time they matched up at 10ball, but as you know, I still consider 10ball to be a fringe game.
The emergence of new superstars in pool in no way diminishes Shane's legendary achievements. He is an all-time great, end of story. Let's see how he does head-to-head against Gorst and Filler in 2025 and pick up the conversation in December. I'm reserving the right to change my mind about this.
My guess is that neither was at risk for a single dollar in that match.
Still, it's a significant win, but Shane would trade the 120-116 win in a second for a win in the 2024 US Open 9ball final, in which Fedor beat him. It is in the biggest, highest pressure, moments that the great ones remind you who they are, and the pressure is highest when the biggest titles are on the line.
8intheside
Well-known member
shane has what,5 us-opens? But of course he wanted to win, but I think his head was held a Bit higher beating an Absolutely machine like Gorst in a long race. Shane has won everything there is to win. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesnt value these challenge races a bit more. Maybe he even gets up for them more than a regular tournament
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billiards_watch
Well-known member
Good questions.
Today's pool players play in very well controlled environments. Tournaments, family friendly, punching machine, darts and arcades help with this controlled environment. Security guard at the door helps too. You can walk into a pool hall and get a game if someone is up to it.
Someone mentioned how much better the equipment today is but that is making an argument for past players too. They were shooting with baseball bats. LOL
Heck, there are people here that have never stepped foot in a smoky pool room.
billiards_watch
Well-known member
Can you imagine how good Efren would be if you gave him a modern cue on a modern table? Heck, he was kicking SVB's ass in that exhibition. Yes, it was an exhibition and thank goodness Efren is grey now.
I especially love it when the crowd says "Where?!" on his last shot and he puts in the pocket every damn time!
I especially love it when the crowd says "Where?!" on his last shot and he puts in the pocket every damn time!