OK then... apologies to 7stud for my misunderstanding.
I could have sworn that you say a half ball hit gets maximum throw with no sidespin. If that's true, doesn't adding rubbing speed (spin) reduce friction?
pj
chgo
Best Advice Ever For Straight-In Shots?
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
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I could have sworn that you say a half ball hit gets maximum throw with no sidespin. If that's true, doesn't adding rubbing speed (spin) reduce friction?
pj
chgo
That is correct. Maximum CIT is at a 1/2-ball hit. If you add inside spin, that will reduce the amount of throw. Adding a little outside spin will also reduce the amount of throw. But adding a lot of outside spin can create maximum SIT in the other direction. For more information, see the answers to related questions here:
Yes, that's the misunderstanding - my comments were all about inside spin (like your part in blue above) and about "optimum throw for the cut angle", not maximum throw overall.
But I'm confused by the underlined part - since the amount of needed inside spin for optimum (max for the cut angle) "forward" throw diminishes from 50% to 0% as the cut goes from none to half ball, I've always assumed that "forward" throw could continue to be optimized (for the cut angle) by gradually adding outside spin (up to 50%) from there to the maximum cut angle, slowing the too-fast rubbing speed.
In other words, I visualize the spin needed for optimum "forward" throw as changing from 50% inside to 50% outside more or less evenly as the cut angle goes from none to maximum. Please disillusion me (gently) if I need it.
pj
chgo
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Your statements are correct. When I wrote adding a little outside spin reduces throw, I was referring to a 1/2-ball bit.
Pitchers in MLB baseball can throw 102-104 mph fastballs with movement that seem unhittable. The problem becomes after a couple of pitches for strikes, everything tends to be pitches out of the strike zone for balls. But when they start throwing 96-98 mph strikes, they can paint the corners of the strike zone for whiffs and pop flys & dominate the game.
Going all out is performing on instinctive skills which are not what to you want to rely on in a game of strategy & skills.
There is a rhythm to one’s pool stroke just like a bow on a violin or on a fiddle. Two different strokes to produce music.
Stroking through the cue ball & maintaining your stroke speed extending beyond the cue ball is really an acquired skill.
First time I watched Jason Shaw practicing, that is exactly what he appeared to be doing -- pounding long shots in over and over.One of my favorite drills when getting back in stroke I call the "Hard Hit" drill. Set up long straight in shots (preferably the same shot multiple times) and hit it very hard, much harder than normal. You will miss more than you make! Do this about 20-25 times with the same shot and then back off to normal speed. Viola, you will be making a high percentage of the shots now. I promise! Keep doing this same drill with other long straight-in shots from different positions on the table. This is an inside secret to getting back in stroke quickly so don't tell anyone, okay.
You're Dr Cue's protege and you don't know if he is a good instructor?
I don't truly understand all the technical aspects of shooting a pool shot. I learned how things work on the table by hitting a couple of million balls. I do know how to do certain things with the cue ball that I still don't understand how they work but that's okay with me. Two and three ball throw shots are very cool and very tricky at the same time. Ronnie and Danny both showed me some One Pocket shots that mystify me to this day.
I can only add to this conversation that I greatly prefer shooting a straight-in shot to any severe cut shot. Toby Sweet and Lee Van Corteza are two of the best cut shot shooters I ever saw. It seems like they never missed a cut shot. And then there was Louie Roberts! He cut in the most difficult long cut shots like they were hangers. He was a once in a lifetime freak!
I can only add to this conversation that I greatly prefer shooting a straight-in shot to any severe cut shot. Toby Sweet and Lee Van Corteza are two of the best cut shot shooters I ever saw. It seems like they never missed a cut shot. And then there was Louie Roberts! He cut in the most difficult long cut shots like they were hangers. He was a once in a lifetime freak!
I've been trying this and I like it.
Another little mental trick that I read here a long time ago, is to spend an extra few seconds down in position, lined up and ready for contact stroke, but wait those extra few seconds looking at the alignment. A definite longer pause before shooting. That works for me. Can't really say why, but maybe it feels like there is a deeper, finer level of aiming that happens after a little extra time and it's made these shots much less of an issue for me. That said, whenever you try something and it works the first couple times, there's a mental bias towards believing that you learned a new technique, and you can do it easily from now on, and that in itself is helpful too.
Jeez, talk about down the rabbit hole! Entertaining thread, but very little of it is relevant to the OP. Straight in shots, like all shots, are about vision center, stroke quality, tip accuracy. Straight in shots are a good tool for measuring these three, because the results are exaggerated, and simplified. This is 450 Fargo stuff. The OP is obviously all over the map, when hitting the cue ball.
Niels has a very good video on this, Terminator Tips. The OP should not be trying to execute the Mighty X,like a 690 Fargo. Move the cue ball to the center of the table, if not successful, move it closer to each shot. Build on success, build confidence, back cue ball up as you go. The OP can not sink long straight in shots, while drawing the cue ball back in to the pocket. Neither can most of the people posting in this thread. Should not even be trying. Accomplish what you can actually do, build from there.
Amen. As I said about 50 posts ago, the same issues causing you to miss straight in shots contribute to your misses on all other shots too...we all just delude ourselves into thinking it has to be because we didn't aim right, or we didn't account for the throw appropriately, etc.
Bob Jewitt stated much the same! Lost in the noise
The most powerful drill of all time
Aim the cue ball at the pocket and forget about the object ball.
Jay brings up a point that still gives me feelings of consternation after decades of playing severe cut shots.
Therein lies the rub…….I learned over the years and pocketing thousands of cut shots that pretty much most shots can
get pocketed using just center ball and the thinnest of object balls cuts, except for backwards cuts. And you can also
pocket those same shots using English, running and reverse, to steer the cue ball. For me, the issue that arises is when
I’ve already pocketed a over dozen balls using center ball cut shots and now am confronted with a tough shot where
only reverse English, or running English, gets the cue ball where I want it to stop. When I have to now use English to
make a severe cut shot cutting the object ball thin and it’s 5 ft. away, I tend to misjudge the cut or the English needed.
It only takes a couple of shots to realign your aiming and delivery systems so that you can switch from center ball to English, at least for me. It’s when I haven’t used English on cuts shots in a match that starts out with me using center ball. It seems like the longer it takes me to get around to using English on cut shots, the more likely it becomes I’ll miss the first time I attempt such a shot because of too thin a cut or English induced throw. After I get the opportunity to play cut shots both ways, the confusion basically goes away. When I miss, it’s because of a stroke flaw, not because of my misjudgement.
Yes. He was.
I'll share something else that may seem weird but it works anyway. On an extreme cut shot (75-80 degrees or more) it is better to hit the cue ball just below center, almost like stop shot english. It seems you can hit it thinner that way and more accurately. Someone (Danny?) once explained to me that when you use center ball you are imparting some throw to the object ball. With low english there is no throw. After all these years I'm not sure I understand that but just try shooting some extreme cut shots with low english and gauge your own results.
FYI, I just created another analysis:
All the ways both CIT and SIT vary with cut angle, speed, and amount of inside or outside spin are now totally covered and described here:
Here are the bottom-line conclusions of the two analyses:
With a fairly straight shot, only about 50% of maximum outside spin is required to get maximum spin-induced throw (SIT) at slow speed. For large cut angles, much more outside spin is required for maximum SIT.
With a very small cut-angle shot, only about 50% of maximum inside spin is required to get maximum cut-induced throw (CIT) at slow speed. For large cut angles, outside spin is required for maximum CIT (with larger amounts of outside spin required at larger angles).
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