Bergman-Lil John Match

krelldog

krelldog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought the stream. XPool did a fantastic job. Perfect stream, and a great job by Scott Frost doing the commentary.

I couldn't watch every night till the end, so I missed on day 2 why they decided to extend the match a third day ?

Who initiated this ? I can't imagine it was Lil John, but why would he agree to this when it was stipulated to be a 2 day match ?

All in all a fantastic match. Its very interesting to see a spot this big, especially against a very competent opponent

BTW- I'll take Scott Frost and Jason Sword doing one pocket commentary till the end of time. They compliment each other well and do a fantastic job.
 
My other half spoke to LilJon several times before, during, and after the match. LilJon said he and Justin agreed they would not play more than 8 hours a day, which is why Day 2 ended at 14-14.

When Keith McCready came in third at the 2003 U.S. Open, it was during Tropical Storm Isabel, and there was a power outage for a day or two, resulting in games Saturday night until 3 a.m. The next morning's match began at 11 a.m., and it was a compound fracture why he did not play well. Getting sick on spoiled lunch meat in the fridge was the main cultprit, though. If they had played the U.S. Open through on Saturday night at 3 a.m., Billy Incardona said Keith would have won, hands down. He was in the zone. Next morning, he was flat.

I appreciate both players' stepping up to the plate and giving it their all. There can only be one winner, and Justin rose to the top first. LilJon hasn't been in combat as much as Justin, which I think contributed to the defeat. His cueball control was sketchy compared to Justin.

Justin Bergman reminds me of the Fonz. He's an independent contractor and is the captain of his own ship. I like that. Let him be the American's secret weapon. I don't care if he does not fly and will not go overseas to compete in Matchroom events. I like him just the way he is.
 
JAM said:
I appreciate both players' stepping up to the plate and giving it their all. There can only be one winner, and Justin rose to the top first. LilJon hasn't been in combat as much as Justin, which I think contributed to the defeat. His cueball control was sketchy compared to Justin.
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What do you mean by hasn't been in combat as much as Justin? Everytime I've seen Lil John he's in the grease. I don't get out much and it sounds like you and Keith know him well.
He did look more nervous than I've seen him before. I assumed it was the big money.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
What do you mean by hasn't been in combat as much as Justin? Everytime I've seen Lil John he's in the grease. I don't get out much and it sounds like you and Keith know him well.
He did look more nervous than I've seen him before. I assumed it was the big money.
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He's been 'in combat' his entire pool career. I agree with you here.
 
JAM said:
My other half spoke to LilJon several times before, during, and after the match. LilJon said he and Justin agreed they would not play more than 8 hours a day, which is why Day 2 ended at 14-14.


Justin Bergman reminds me of the Fonz. He's an independent contractor and is the captain of his own ship. I like that. Let him be the American's secret weapon. I don't care if he does not fly and will not go overseas to compete in Matchroom events. I like him just the way he is.
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Pool is a choose your own adventure for sure. Great, great player who chooses to stay local. Why not? We've all got one life to live and if that's his jam, then have at it. He has the ability to compete anywhere on the globe and have a chance to win. I get it, I travel, but airports suck, and frankly so do hotels. All IMHO obviously.
 
jalapus logan said:
Pool is a choose your own adventure for sure. Great, great player who chooses to stay local. Why not? We've all got one life to live and if that's his jam, then have at it. He has the ability to compete anywhere on the globe and have a chance to win. I get it, I travel, but airports suck, and frankly so do hotels. All IMHO obviously.
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From what is public knowledge Bergman gets plenty of action that comes to him. Sounds like a great deal for him.😉
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
What do you mean by hasn't been in combat as much as Justin? Everytime I've seen Lil John he's in the grease. I don't get out much and it sounds like you and Keith know him well.
He did look more nervous than I've seen him before. I assumed it was the big money.
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LilJon has huge gamble, and is a good man to gamble with, no question. My opinion, just from rumblings I learn here and there, Justin seems to be more engaged in challenge-type matches than LilJon in recent times. Ten, twenty year ago, LilJon was more active, again, just in my opinion. :)
 
garczar said:
He's been 'in combat' his entire pool career. I agree with you here.
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Maybe it's more an issue of matching up.

You can get in the grease all you want but you have to know your limitations. And IMO, at a certain point, the gap between some players is bigger than they estimate. IOWs, the gap at the higher levels of play is exponential and not what you encounter amongst the boys. An elite player is a different kettle of fish to match up against.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Maybe it's more an issue of matching up.

You can get in the grease all you want but you have to know your limitations. And IMO, at a certain point, the gap between some players is bigger than they estimate. IOWs, the gap at the higher levels of play is exponential and not what you encounter amongst the boys. An elite player is a different kettle of fish to match up against.

Lou Figueroa
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Lou -

Right as usual.

The trap that really good players try to offer a big spot to entice a weaker player. A strong player that often gives up a spot is offered a spot is hooked. I played in the same poolroom with Buddy Hall, and he gave spots to alot of great players (including JAM's friend). He said it didnt matter how big the spot was if his opponet didnt get to shoot.

The other item I always have to laugh at is when someone says "he has alot of gamble" or "will get in the grease". The gambling for the sake of gambling is dumb, any fool can do that. Gambling where you have a solid chance of winning is something different.

Ken
 
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Ken_4fun said:
Lou -

Right as usual.

The trap that really good players try to offer a big spot to entice a weaker player. A strong player that often gives up a spot is offered a spot is hooked. I played in the same poolroom with Buddy Hall, and he gave spots to alot of great players (including JAM's friend). He said it didnt matter how big the spot was if his opponet didnt get to shoot.

The other item I always have to laugh at is when someone says "he has alot of gamble" or "will get in the grease". The gambling for the sake of gambling is dumb, any fool can do that. Gambling where you have a solid chance of winning is something different.

Ken
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Agreed.

Funny story: Like 30 years ago Buddy Hall came to St Louis. He attempted to match up with the local shortstops and no one would give him any action because he was offering games like 10-7. Finally someone told him, "Buddy, Nick Varner was just through here and was giving us 11-6, 12-6, 13-5 *and winning* so you -- The Rifleman -- are going to have to give up some bigger spots if you want action."

Buddy was to never returned to St Louis saying on his way out the door that Nick had ruined it for everyone else on the road, lol.

Lou Figueroa
 
jalapus logan said:
Pool is a choose your own adventure for sure. Great, great player who chooses to stay local. Why not? We've all got one life to live and if that's his jam, then have at it. He has the ability to compete anywhere on the globe and have a chance to win. I get it, I travel, but airports suck, and frankly so do hotels. All IMHO obviously.
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I have to travel every month and your right airport do suck nowadays..., well getting through security SUCKS. Most hotels aren't bad and Airbnb can really work out if you do your homework.

I heard Justin say that he had trouble getting Action, nobody really wanted to play him, maybe thats why he doesn't travel?
 
lfigueroa said:
Agreed.

Funny story: Like 30 years ago Buddy Hall came to St Louis. He attempted to match up with the local shortstops and no one would give him any action because he was offering games like 10-7. Finally someone told him, "Buddy, Nick Varner was just through here and was giving us 11-6, 12-6, 13-5 *and winning* so you -- The Rifleman -- are going to have to give up some bigger spots if you want action."

Buddy was to never returned to St Louis saying on his way out the door that Nick had ruined it for everyone else on the road, lol.

Lou Figueroa
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I knew I guy that gave outrageous spots too. Even to guys he didn't know. He won more money gambling than anyone I ever knew. One time I witnessed him give a guy 12-2 in one pocket. I knew the guy he gave that game to and he could play a little (regular 30-40 ball runner)!

What made his handicapping "philosophy" work was:
  • He was always in action. Always. Wherever he went.
  • He was a very shrewd gambler that put his ego aside once he realized he made a bad game. Most of the time, he would unscrew after losing one bet. Never stayed past two losing bets.
  • Because the spots seemed like such a lock, his opponents often stayed until they were out of ammo (broke).
Put all those things together and it's pretty easy to see how it would be successful in the long run. In hindsight, he did pray on mostly weaker players instead of playing someone his own speed or close to it. On paper, most of his games he booked absolutely appeared to be losers, but I think he counted on the weaker player to fold up / not play their normal game once they got intimidated.
 
fjk said:
  • He was a very shrewd gambler that put his ego aside once he realized he made a bad game. Most of the time, he would unscrew after losing one bet. Never stayed past two losing bets.
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I see you went with “shrewd gambler” but the correct term for someone like this is “massive nit” or “bad action”
 
fjk said:
Noooo, quitting while ahead is a massive nit and/or bad action. You can quit losers anytime you want; especially giving up huge weight.
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If somebody made a game with me, lost the first game, then quit, I would never play that person again. And I would tell everyone I know not to play that person. And when I’m telling them the reason they shouldn’t play that person, I definitely would not be saying because they’re a “shrewd gambler”
 
highkarate said:
If somebody made a game with me, lost the first game, then quit, I would never play that person again. And I would tell everyone I know not to play that person. And when I’m telling them the reason they shouldn’t play that person, I definitely would not be saying because they’re a “shrewd gambler”
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So how many sets do they need to lose before it's ok for them to quit? In my book, the loser can always quit whenever then want without any criticism whatsoever. ESPECIALLY when giving a huge handicap. If someone wants to get a good game and win more, they should ask to play for more. Sets are played for a reason; they're starting and stopping points.

Again, I'm from the old school and quitting winners is poor form. I have never heard of anyone getting angry at the loser quitting. Disappointed maybe, but not angry.
 
fjk said:
So how many sets do they need to lose before it's ok for them to quit? In my book, the loser can always quit whenever then want without any criticism whatsoever. ESPECIALLY when giving a huge handicap. If someone wants to get a good game and win more, they should ask to play for more. Sets are played for a reason; they're starting and stopping points.

Again, I'm from the old school and quitting winners is poor form. I have never heard of anyone getting angry at the loser quitting. Disappointed maybe, but not angry.
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What if I am asked to play onepocket by the game, play for a few hours, get tired and quit up a few games? Am I a nit? Would it make a difference if no time amount and no number of games were discussed beforehand? Would it matter if I offered double or nothing for one more game? Asking for a friend 🤣
 
highkarate said:
If somebody made a game with me, lost the first game, then quit, I would never play that person again. And I would tell everyone I know not to play that person. And when I’m telling them the reason they shouldn’t play that person, I definitely would not be saying because they’re a “shrewd gambler”
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if you want your opponent to stay negotiate an "ahead" set or a "race to" match

nothing wrong with firing a barrel or two testing the water if you can
 
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