The Gambling Process

What feels like pressure to one person means nothing to another. For some, playing for first place is no big deal - just another game. For others, it’s the weight of the world. Some thrive under the spotlight, others prefers to stay off the radar. Some crack when playing/gambling with someone else’s money while others thrive doing it. To some it’s terrifying to play with their own cash while some thrive. In pool, just as in life what really matters is what YOU think matters… no universal truths. In pool, as in life, you create your reputation. If you think you are going to play/gamble with someone else’s money and not care if you win or lose it won’t take long before you can’t find a backer.
 
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Hell, even John Schmidt funded his US Open win by internet backers! Right here on AZB. Pros and top locals get their entry fee and action staked. Its the norm, not the exception.

At least thru the early 2000's.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Hell, even John Schmidt funded his US Open win by internet backers! Right here on AZB. Pros and top locals get their entry fee and action staked. Its the norm, not the exception.

At least thru the early 2000's.
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Entry fees staked by others IMO is not the same a gambling with a baker.
 
I see some casual talk of dumping backers from people that know better. Dangerous talk around young knuckleheads that don't know better. Dumping a backer is one of the most dangerous things you can do in pool and the amount doesn't matter. I have seen people hurt bad for twenty dollar dumps! Aside from the cash, it pisses people off to be played for a fool.

I have never dumped, never been part of a dump either. I have had people come to me wanting to dump. I refused, both because of the danger and because anyone wanting to dump wasn't able to beat me anyway and they were giving me advance notice of that. I would have to be a moron to give away 50% when I could have it all.

Players often have backers because they can't manage their money to have enough on hand to cover the bigger bets. 35% of ten thousand beats hell out of 100% of nothing!

Back to dumping, it is always rare. However, many people think they have been dumped when a player loses. Another very good reason to not have a backer. Watch the best in the world, they all miss shots the average bar player makes most of the time. The difference is that the shot the bar player misses one time in ten the top player misses one time in a hundred. However, if the player has a stranger backing them that one in a hundred miss is "proof they have been dumped" if the player loses.

I backed one guy, sorta. We were friendly, stretching it a bit to say friends. He built up a little money on the pool tables all evening then spent it on drink or dope. Starting every evening he was broke or very close to it. I would play him early for small stakes and lose. Once or twice a week I would play him later in the evening if he was having a good night and get back all I lost and then some. I was making a couple hundred a week as regular as clockwork "farming" this player for about six months. I was trying to figure out how to get about a half dozen guys like this. Make about a grand a week no risk. Never did figure that one out!

Hu
 
ive never had a backer and always bet my own and as much as they will bet. called the window is open.

no one that has backers ever gets ahead, as they need backers because they cant make good games or hold onto their money long enough.

the only backers that come out only a little ahead are ones with long term deals before any money is split and the backer gets the higher payout.
and of course the smart backer makes the games as few players are good enough to handicap a game all the time and once they hit a loser they lose all their cash.

the proof is in the pudding as there are almost no pro pool player gamblers that have any real money. just the select few that dont gamble much and won a lot in tournaments during their short span of greatness.
 
maha said:
ive never had a backer and always bet my own and as much as they will bet. called the window is open.

no one that has backers ever gets ahead, as they need backers because they cant make good games or hold onto their money long enough.

the only backers that come out only a little ahead are ones with long term deals before any money is split and the backer gets the higher payout.
and of course the smart backer makes the games as few players are good enough to handicap a game all the time and once they hit a loser they lose all their cash.

the proof is in the pudding as there are almost no pro pool player gamblers that have any real money. just the select few that dont gamble much and won a lot in tournaments during their short span of greatness.
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This right here.
 
People use the word Gambling, but most real Gamblers or Old Time Hustlers that ever came into to North Hollweird Billiards, were not seeking to play for money with BEST PLAYER in place. They were seeking the guy with most money, who thought they were best Pool players. Being honest, there was more STEALING than Gambling.


When the Horses were running at Hollywood Park, or Santa Anita, this is when the gambles came to North Hollywood Billiards,, they played pool at night, hit Track in daylight. Most were better at Pool than Pony’s. More control in a game of game.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
People use the word Gambling, but most Gamblers or Old Time Hustlers that ever came into to North Hollyweird Billiards, were not seeking to play for money with BEST PLAYER in place. They were seeking the guy with most money, who thought they were best Pool players. Being honest, there was more STEALING than Gambling.
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maha said:
ive never had a backer and always bet my own and as much as they will bet. called the window is open.

no one that has backers ever gets ahead, as they need backers because they cant make good games or hold onto their money long enough.

the only backers that come out only a little ahead are ones with long term deals before any money is split and the backer gets the higher payout.
and of course the smart backer makes the games as few players are good enough to handicap a game all the time and once they hit a loser they lose all their cash.

the proof is in the pudding as there are almost no pro pool player gamblers that have any real money. just the select few that dont gamble much and won a lot in tournaments during their short span of greatness.
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Cowboy, many here deride you over your posts, but this post I quoted here is an accurate glimpse of how things were in many places in the past. In the case of the post I quoted here from Maha especially, Cowboys post describes you sir. You weren’t a gambler, you were a thief, what many would call a lock artist, that some others would call a nit. One that won’t take an even game, or offer one, EVER. While you think that makes you a “savvy gambler”, the truth is that what you were doing is stealing, not gambling, just for the record.
 
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Frosty said:
Cowboy, many here deride you over your posts, but this post I quoted here is an accurate glimpse of how things were in many places in the past. In the case of the post I quoted here from Maha especially, Cowboys post describes you sir. You weren’t a gambler, you were a thief, what many would call a lock artist, that some others would call a nit. One that won’t take an even game, or offer one, EVER. While you think that makes you a “savvy gambler”, the truth is that what you were doing is stealing, not gambling, just for the record.
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Well I honestly I am just voicing my opinion, my life experience, and me personally if I want to gamble, it will be in Casino that has the money to pay their losses. I know will not get a rubber check for winning, or an IOU that will never be paid.

Gambling on a game of Pool is not my cup of tea, as when I have money at risk is a distraction, and honestly take away from the ability to focus on what I am doing. Playing a Game of Pool for the win.

Never would even consider someone else backing me, because I would be putting their money at rick, and that too would be a distraction.

A Five or Seven Dollars Entry 9 Ball Tournament use to be fun, would drive 40 miles to the old Kolby's’on Sunday for the fun. If I won fine, if I lost it not a big deal, when the Tournament playing thing quit being fun, I stopped going.

People seem to love to talk about their big brass balls, and how much they gamble, how much they win, and most is IMHO all bulls**t. Well later most of these winners, are broke, look for someone to loan them money for a Big Mac, or trying to bum a Cigarette..

How many of their big time gambling hero's like one who recently died, made all this money playing Pool, Gambling Big, Winning Tournaments, and then they die. Then some good friend starts a flipping GoFundMe to pay for funeral. Where did all the winning go? Why the need for Go FundMe?.

These people live life like my dumb assed cousin Jerry lives life on the come, had a great business, make over 250K per year with not much overhead. Never putting a cent away, living like he made 300K per year. Jerry's dad was the same way. Again believed rainy day would not come, will it raining now and the guy is always wet broke.

If you like what I just said fine, I guess you can handle honesty. If you don’t like my comments, rebut my opinions, and observations.

If you fell you need to attack me personally, because you don't agree with me, well I will tell you up front, your BUSH LEAGUE.

JMHO
 
I’ve wore all the hats over the years. I was a thief, lock smith, con artist, nit, hustler, a fish, gambler, sucker, winner and loser. And anything else you can think of, I’m sure I was at one point or another.

It was always a circumstance of my life and bankroll. I never let any of my short term actions define who I am as a man.

It’s impossible to navigate your way through life and just be one thing the whole time. I was never a champion, so I had to rely on other things to get the cash, I played good, but not good enough to rely on just my game to get the cash. Champions can rely on their game and success follows. God bless them🙏🏼


These days that’s all changed. I tossed in the towel years ago. So now I can talk about things like this openly. Nothing to be proud of. But I’ll be damned if I’m gonna lie and say I was always a gambler and only made hard games and played until my fingers bled. No, I did whatever it took to get the cash.

The word “whatever” and “whatever it takes” can be different things at different times. Those of you who lived it, will understand this post. Those who are new to pool might never understand it. The world has changed.

This isn’t unique to me, I seen many players do the some things good and bad things just as I did. It’s the life I chose. I leaned good/bad watching others. I didn’t invent the wheel. I just copied it.

Fatboy
 
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@Frosty
I think you are being overly harsh and coming to the wrong conclusion regarding @maha
If the idea to play for money is to make money, then Maha was a master at it
If you admire the gladiator that goes into the ring tries his best
just to get eaten by the lion that’s your decision
And you are entitled to value what you wish
For me, I would not choose that gladiator as a role model to copy
just sayin
 
@Frosty
Let me also add
That as a competitor you want to test yourself against the best to see where you stand. I am all for that.
You step in the ring and let the best man win

But as I said before, if the goal is to make money, you need to pick and choose how you bet and who you play against
 
Money won is sweeter than money earned.

I can remember being a high school age kid in the early 90s and going in with my friend Billy on a pool match at Snookers in Antioch, TN. Snookers closed down for years and recently came back. I went buy for a visit in the last couple of years, but it wasn't the magic place it was in the 90s. We walked in, and walked back out.

Billy was this cool little Vietnamese kid who was a little bit older than me and was in college. We had a contingent of Vietnamese players in that area who could really play, and loved to gamble. I believe Billy was going to MTSU at the time. He always dressed really stylish for that time, in the latest Nike gear, always had a Nike hat pulled town tight, with a little gold chain and bracelet. He definitely had swagger and I admired him. He always used a house cue (many of us did) and was a decent player. A bit better than me. I learned that the expensive way. At this time Snookers was full of 4 x 8 Gold Crowns. Most had slow cloth, and the two front tables had tight pockets and fast cloth.

So, Billy and this other kid matched up. This kid played good. I say kid, but he was probably 18, tall, pretty heavy/stocky, and played with a sweet little sneaky pete. I had beaten him in a tournament once, but was lucky to do so. I did think he was maybe a little bit better than Billy, but Billy was mentally tough.....and back then everyone wasn't scared to death to play if they didn't have 100% the nuts.

I didn't stake Billy, but I went in half with him on a $100 set ($100 was decent to some young kids in the early 90s, when a $20 bill equaled a FUN Friday night). The match was exciting. Billy played hard and won by a close margin. I'm almost 47 and I still remember splitting up that $100 and enjoying that sweet $50 addition to my meager bankroll. In fact, I think I may have only had $50 on me and went all in. I was prone to doing that back then. I was even happier when Billy's opponent quit after the first set. He normally wasn't so nitty, so I suspect he went bust after one set. No shame in that.

If I remember correctly, I then parlayed that $50 into some $5 a game 9 ball with a local barber who liked to play and I managed to double the $50 to $100. And I couldn't even PLAY...I might run 3 or 4 balls, but I was in love with pool and considered myself a pool player. Once in a while I might run a table back then. You could just find all kinds of action back then...and I loved playing the barber, because if I did my best I could play just good enough to beat him, but not enough to scare him off. I remember he worked at Supercuts and I'd go get my haircut from him on Nolensville Road. And if you lost you just shook hands and went on. No big deal. Everyone back then had cash, and gambled.

Anyhow, I've grown up around pool my whole life, seeing and knowing some great players/big gamblers. Stakehorses generally have money, and I'm sure there is some ego involved, but that is ok. Do you think you could become successful or wealthy without some ego? They create good action that we all enjoy!
 
iusedtoberich said:
Hell, even John Schmidt funded his US Open win by internet backers! Right here on AZB. Pros and top locals get their entry fee and action staked. Its the norm, not the exception.

At least thru the early 2000's.
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BackerS nothin, that was our one and only Don Purdy that booked that winner.

I saw him doing yard work a couple months ago and pulled the bicycle over to say hi.
 
Speaking of gambling and gamblers, is there any consensus about what player's gambling career (as opposed to tournament winnings) wound up on the best side of the George C. Scott test? Buddy Hall? Frisco Jack? Parica? My sleeper choice might be Nick Vlahos, whose road kills got quickly sent to his mom and invested in real estate. Too bad he never made it out of his early 40's.

And yeah, I know that this isn't something you can look up in a book. I'm just wondering out of curiosity what others might think.

Look, you wanna hustle pool, don't you? This game isn't like football. Nobody pays you for yardage. When you hustle you keep score real simple. The end of the game you count up your money. That's how you find out who's best. That's the only way.
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