Win the Flip

Island Drive said:
I thought it was alternate break, they determined since I took the first break it wasn't ok for me to break the second rack.
I was fine with that.... I wanted a ruling was all
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Are you saying that you were unsure whether it was alternate breaks or winner breaks, and you wanted a ruling? Did you win the first rack?
 
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DeeDeeCues said:
Neither. The rules of chivalry clearly state that if you give the break to your opponent after winning the choice to break, the rest of the match a third party will break every rack. If playing in a place that allows minors, it must be an eleven year old girl scout with at least eleven badges. If playing in a place where minors aren't allowed, it must be the drunkest guy in the bar and he has to start a fight if the match goes hill/hill.

sweet jeebus.
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Wow, I have broken rules, 11 year girl Scouts were unavailable so we had a 10 year brownie breaking for us.

i always considered the winner of the flip winning the choice of who will break first. I have given up the break already, I don't consider it a disadvantage, not everyone plays break and run pool. So in the the OP's situation whoever broke the first game breaks the odd games, whoever lost the flip breaks the even games, it aint rocket science, its not all that tough to figure out.
 
I win the flip
I give you the break the first game.
Second game you give me the break.
Third game you keep the break.
Fourth game I give you the break.
5th game.... :)
Now, who's turn is it too break if it's not alternate break?
 
Bob Jewett said:
Pat did, in fact, sometimes give up the break. He even gave his opponent all the breaks with some excuse such as a sore arm. That was back when the break was not an advantage for a lot of players on the tour. The maximum power style led to a lot of scratches and even cue balls off the table.
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Yes, I attended a couple of events in which Pat did this. It was in 1997-98 that he went through this phase. To be fair, he was the one keeping the stats for pro pool, so he must have known his own success rate when breaking, and possibly the success rate of various opponents.
 
In 8 ball, amateur players break and make a ball much less than 50% of the time. So winning the flip, if winner must break, is loosing the flip.
 
I play in a city league with its own unique rule set that specifies a win on an 8-ball break and a loss on an 8-ball break with a scratch. It also does not allow intentional safeties. The league has 10 teams and about 60 players if you include alternates. Eight-ball breaks generally average to about once every 3 or 4 matches, and of those maybe 20% also scratch or the cue ball jumps off the table so winning or losing on the break is not a major factor.

There are maybe 8 or 9 guys in the league that are a legitimate threat to break and run occasionally, myself included - no one does it with any regularity. Far more times the nonbreaking player runs the table on their first inning after the breaker has made some balls then missed.

In this situation I have always felt that giving up the break when I win the flip is to my advantage. However, I don't do it very much due to peer pressure from my teammates who think it's crazy to give up the break because they've all heard how important all of the commentators on pro matches say the break is. The times I will do it is against those 8 or 9 players that do have a possibility of a break and run. My reasoning is that if I break, make a few balls then miss, they will almost certainly get out from there. Over the past couple of years my record against them when using this strategy is well in my favor, at least 3 to 2 wins vs losses, with only 2 break and runs against me and no 8-ball breaks. To be clear this record applies only to the games where I give up the break.

So what do you guys think? Is this strategy valid, or have I just been lucky so far?
 
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Island Drive said:
Best is too break.
I always prefer to choose which ball group I'm shooting at.
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That works until you get into take what you make rules. Gets kind of crazy sometimes. Take what you make, your choice if you make one of each. If you make three balls then you have to take whatever you made two of.

As you know, eight ball rules have to be explained in detail because two places across the street from each other might be playing different rules. I have seen the rules posted on standard typewriter paper on the walls but I can only think of one place that had a big professionally painted sign laying out the rules. Nice! I was traveling through northern Arkansas, Tennessee, that general area, and I was running into a lot of making up the rules as you go to screw the stranger so a sign was very nice. All the smirks I knew I was getting gamed. It wasn't like I was going to lose but they sure made it a lot harder to win some places! I passed through that area a few times after that but I never targeted it again. Once was enough!

Hu
 
At my level of board play. Still wanna break 8 ball/period.
One thing about 8 ball, if you make 3 or 4 on the break, the run is usually simple.
You can make 3 on the break in 9 ball and be hooked.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Plenty of reasons. Maybe you know your opponent has a terrible break. Maybe you know your opponent has a great break, but isn't a threat to run out. Maybe you are playing a confused old guy. Maybe your opponent is a 23y/o lady in a short skirt. I've done it and had it done to me numerous times. It can be a great mind game.

If I want to give up the break, I try to do it before a coin flip.
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Or maybe the flip winner could tell the deferral's beneficiary would be confustigated by what happened and be thusly unable to prevail.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Why in the world did the winner of the flip give up the break? I’ve never in my life seen anyone do that.
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I've seen it happen plenty of times. Saw someone do it last Sunday as a matter of fact.
I also know a guy that gives up the (first) break almost every single time. When I questioned him about it, he said he doesn't like to see coins hitting the cloth.
He has no issue with lagging for the break though, so I make him do that every time instead.
 
It has been statistically proven that you should always call "tails". I mean, if you get some head, you know you're gonna get some tail.
 
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