St. Louis Louie vs. Archer 1990
- Thread starter axejunkie
- Start date
Thank you for this!!
Man, he must have been a total monster in the 70s.
He was, but Buddy still could give him the 7 and come away with the $$$$.
In any event- how would folks see the caliber ( level) of play back then to the level of play today? It just seems like the highest level of play today is well beyond what we witness on this 1990 tape - on even tougher tables than what this table appears to be in this match.
The level of focus on each and every shot and especially safeties seems much higher today - but I genuinely enjoy these older matches as we get to see the best playing at that point in time and also get to see " legends" like St. Louie - Louie Roberts. - thanks for the post!!!
The level of focus on each and every shot and especially safeties seems much higher today - but I genuinely enjoy these older matches as we get to see the best playing at that point in time and also get to see " legends" like St. Louie - Louie Roberts. - thanks for the post!!!
middleofnowhere
Registered
Sadly about a year later after that match Louie would be dead.I Played Louie in a tournament just a few years before that and he was so messed up I asked Grady who was running the tournament should we just play later? Grady just looked at me and said go ahead and play he's not going to be any better. I beat him like 11 to 4. I felt pretty sad because I had seen him play when he probably played his best he would have given me the six or more.
It seemed like Incardona and Grady hinted at Louie's recent past but understandably didn't choose to discuss it much.
How much did the Heroin add to his game? Zero respect for players that died from Heroin. George SanSouci, those close to him verified it was Heroin, yet the pool world likes to glorify an addict. Commentators praise them and you wonder why big money sponsors turn away from pool.
I think that it is more important to understand that people make choices in life that others- especially those that are not close to them- would not quite understand and certainly are not here on earth to judge. If you are so fortunate in life that you cannot fathom the inner pain that someone may be feeling to make such choices, then consider yourself lucky- life can be very cruel for some inside themselves; regardless of the outer visible talents that they may display and others admire.
These early deaths are human tragedies - far removed in meaning-- from the game itself - we are people first, players second, and I hope that we can all truly understand the difference - not to be able to do that is a worse fate in life- in my own experience and feeling.
If you're talking about Louie, my recollection is that he hated needles and it wasn't self-administered heroin that did him in.
So what I'm saying is that there are those in St Louis that found his death highly suspicious.
Lou Figueroa
Well said. Still, while our compassion for those that have suffered must be genuine and unswerving, we ARE on earth to learn from those who have made choices that have compromised their futures.
Ardel Lasseur (spelling?) was the top player in St. Louis till Roberts got above his level.
Louie & I.... We're both Midwest boys he's a couple yrs older that me, I got to see em play allot.
The older St. Louis man.... might of been called Blackie Lasseur (NOT Lassiter) in his day?, never heard much about em, cept he was from the depression era of shooters, fit for survival.
This rocks!
He died or was killed by a gunshot to the head.
In addition to a rare Louie Roberts video, it is quite a trip watching a 21 year old Johnny Archer. This was the beginning of his ascension to becoming player of the decade. Pretty fun that this video captured the All Stars event put on by Danny Biley (sorry Danny, Im sure I butchered the spelling). This tournament was in Lexington KY, my home town. I was in 8th grade at the time and to me, pool was an activity that involved water 
. I talk to Danny every time I see him. He staked a lot of players back in the day including Earl. Of course, he would also stake himself. I didn't really get into pool until about 2001, around the end of his series of All Star tournaments.
Also, the banter of Billy Incardona, Grady and Jeff Carter is pretty great in its own right.
. I talk to Danny every time I see him. He staked a lot of players back in the day including Earl. Of course, he would also stake himself. I didn't really get into pool until about 2001, around the end of his series of All Star tournaments.Also, the banter of Billy Incardona, Grady and Jeff Carter is pretty great in its own right.
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Loved watching Louie. He got away with two fouls. He let go of his cue to aim the path (who calls that foul anyway? And Cardone was absolutely correct on this uncalled foul:
Attachments
Darn right. The signs of what was to come were already there. The 21-year-old Archer was not yet a "finished product" by 1990, but he would blossom into a world champion by 1992.
Here's my take. First off, there were way less players back then. The world was just starting to wake up to pool. The sheer number of players means a lot. That fact partially accounts for the fact that there is only one woman in the top 100 Fargo rankings—Siming Chen. In general, women are just not as interested in pool as men are. Secondly, the equipment was inferior. The cloth had a nap and was slow and the cues were spindly with lots of deflection. Today's modern low-deflection cues and fast, non-nap cloth allows smaller pockets. Just like golf, there is really no comparison between 35 years ago and now.
In a game like straight pool, with slow, napped cloth and needing to go into the rack multiple times per rack, Mosconi's high run is much more impressive than Jayson Shaw's. Sorry Jayson. You're one of my all-time favorite players, but that's the truth.
Here's an approximate analogy. I remember a Golf Digest article from the beginning of Tiger's career. Not to take anything away from Tiger, who I consider to be the greatest golfer of all time, but the article underscores the extreme difficulty of comparing athletes from different eras. In the 1967 U.S. Open at Baltusrol, with a final-round 3-shot lead, Nicklaus played safe off the tee with a 1-iron that plugged in the rough. He then chopped out with an 8-iron back to the fairway, leaving about 237 yards uphill into a stiff breeze. He then unleashed a famous 238-yard 1-iron, carrying the ball onto the putting surface, leaving a 22-foot birdie putt—one he rolled home to finish at 275, breaking Ben Hogan’s 72-hole U.S. Open record by one stroke. Golf Digest later recounted just how unforgiving that shot was: they brought Baltusrol’s reigning club champion, John Norton (no slouch by any means!!), out to hit Jack’s original 1-iron (and the same type of balata ball), and after 50 tries, he only managed one on-the-green. That single successful attempt underscores why Jack’s 1-iron that day is still talked about as one of the game’s all-time great approaches. Afterwards, Norton said the sweet spot on that 1-iron was the width of a dime. A dime! Today's golf clubs have a sweet spot an inch or more in width!
I submit that today's pool equipment is equivalent. Technology changes rapidly in a free market, which makes comparing different eras very difficult.
Just like Sonny Liston