Waxing the cue ball? WTF is Kaci talking about now?

T411 said:
I’m with you… I haven’t heard about it. This is my question… what’s the difference between polishing, waxing, and slicking the cue ball? Where is the line drawn? What products will be allowed and which ones banned? When I was a child my father used to have me clean the balls with toothpast - living in the dark ages!

Also I wonder now if the players are going to be sorry that they ever bought it to light? It’s like my son said “don’t cry when everyone is making pasta.”
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Amazing how many folks claim they knew about it and never uttered a peep. Kind of feel they're to blame as much as those doing the waxing for not bringing this to light before. It's shocking, actually.

When rack rigging was rampant, especially after Joe Tucker's book came forth explaining how to break depending on the cracks in the rack, I was screaming from mountaintops about it. So too should have those who knew about the waxing debacle instead of sitting on the sidelines quiet as a church mouse. In the legal world, this would be called a conspiracy before and after the fact.
 
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skogstokig said:
yes, this was my point earlier. the suspicions aren't necessarily directed towards the opponent, it's often not "maiden" equipment. this all has gotten very personal and tribal.. waxgate isn't over, that's for sure, but the blanket suspicions towards all filipino players needs to stop. and vice versa tribal responses
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I think people are pointing their fingers at Filipino players because waxing the ball could be a cultural thing. Everyone has their little nuances and we know pool is very influential. Maybe waxing the cueball is a thing over there.
 
JAM said:
Amazing how many folks claim they knew about it and never uttered a peep. Kind of feel they're to blame as much as those doing the waxing for not bringing this to light before. It's shocking, actually.
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we don't know if yapp would have started this "peep uttering" if it wasn't for part of the controversy being caught on the main TV broadcast
 
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billiards_watch said:
I have never seen it done like the video showing a player putting the ball in his pocket. I don't think that should be allowed because growing up learning to play at a young age, the rule is don't touch the ball. There is "watch the hit", a common lexicon in pool, so putting the ball and hiding in it briefly for an innocent cleaning/waxing/polishing shouldn't be allowed.

Remember the opponent has to touch the ball and I wouldn't want to handle a cue ball that was just down some guy's pants. Pant pockets are dirty as it is.

Ball in pocket should have already raised a red flag.
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you can't have played pool long if you never seen someone cleaning a pool ball in his pocket.. which 99.9% of the time is to get rid of chalk
 
Here are my conclusions from these vids speculating on foul play:


Pro pool players never think the cue ball is clean. Or clean enough.

Aloysius Yapp is particularly convinced the cue ball is never clean. His conviction is greatest when he loses.

Pro players outside the Philippines think ever Pinoy waxes the ball. No exceptions - except maybe Carlo.
 
The poolhall i go to cleans the balls quite often and I don't know if they know their homemade solution leaves the balls slippery. After all the jibjab I'll switch to my CB or try and clean off their CB
 
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jbart65 said:
Here are my conclusions from these vids speculating on foul play:


Pro pool players never think the cue ball is clean. Or clean enough.

Aloysius Yapp is particularly convinced the cue ball is never clean. His conviction is greatest when he loses.

Pro players outside the Philippines think ever Pinoy waxes the ball. No exceptions - except maybe Carlo.
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do you think niels concerns may have been valid?

against an opponent who got his nickname, wax, for using wax. on cueballs.
 
billiards_watch said:
I think people are pointing their fingers at Filipino players because waxing the ball could be a cultural thing. Everyone has their little nuances and we know pool is very influential. Maybe waxing the cueball is a thing over there.
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From watching the videos if it’s cultural it’s a world wide pool cultural thing. It’s not one country it looks to be going on everywhere.
 
T411 said:
From watching the videos if it’s cultural it’s a world wide pool cultural thing. It’s not one country it looks to be going on everywhere.
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Also, some of these guys don't even think they are cheating. They're so use to it that it becomes the norm. "We're both playing with clean waxed balls. So stop accusing me of cheating."

It can very well be a cultural thing.

I play at different pool halls in California and each room has its own culture. Some pool halls play ball in hand after a scratch and some play behind the line. They've adopted their own rules for 8 ball.

The same with waxing in my opinion.
 
jbart65 said:
No idea. But I have seen Niels clean balls like that before. Many other players, too, including Gorst. No matter who they are playing.
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yeh. everybody cleans balls at some point. that was hardly the point, nor is it necessarily indicating concern. he was testing the cb reaction in the video, after the match against jeff wax.
 
billiards_watch said:
Also, some of these guys don't even think they are cheating. They're so use to it that it becomes the norm. "We're both playing with clean waxed balls. So stop accusing me of cheating."

It can very well be a cultural thing.

I play at different pool halls in California and each room has its own culture. Some pool halls play ball in hand after a scratch and some play behind the line. They've adopted their own rules for 8 ball.

The same with waxing in my opinion.
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My point is that if you watch the video posted earlier in this thread it sure does look like it’s prevalent and it’s more than Filipino players doing it.

I will say to your point of maybe players don’t think that it’s cheating… I mean if you watch the video non of those players seem to be trying to hide it. (If that’s what they are doing?) but it sure does look like it. Maybe it has evolved from polishing all the balls and obviously the cue ball gets the most chalk. That’s why I asked earlier what’s the difference between polishing, waxing, and slicking the cue ball? Where is the line drawn? What products will be allowed and which ones banned?
 
skogstokig said:
yeh. everybody cleans balls at some point. that was hardly the point, nor is it necessarily indicating concern. he was testing the cb reaction in the video, after the match against jeff wax.
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I assume some players have waxed balls. Too many people have complained not to think it hasn't happened.

I just don't have a clue as to who has done it, or what it would look like. Not unless I waxed balls myself and shot them.

As such I think like sjm: All MR can do is try to stop it going forward.

My original post, btw, was partly in cheek. Pros do obsess about the CB. My other balls always get stuff on them too, I'd note.

In any case, I do wonder if the worries about Filipinos waxing the ball has almost become like an urban legend. Non-Pinoys thinking every Filipino uses wax. Every game. Every where. It could be getting in their heads and giving Pinots an actual advantage!

MR and WPA will have to sort it all out.
 
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T411 said:
My point is that if you watch the video posted earlier in this thread it sure does look like it’s prevalent and it’s more than Filipino players doing it.

I will say to your point of maybe players don’t think that it’s cheating… I mean if you watch the video non of those players seem to be trying to hide it. (If that’s what they are doing?) but it sure does look like it. Maybe it has evolved from polishing all the balls and obviously the cue ball gets the most chalk. That’s why I asked earlier what’s the difference between polishing, waxing, and slicking the cue ball? Where is the line drawn? What products will be allowed and which ones banned?
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How a baseball umpire inspects a pitcher is probably where we've come.

Here is a quick list of how to minimize the funny business;

-I think refs should inspect these guy pre/post game for any foreign object or substance on them and on the ball.
-have a towel on hand so they clean the ball before every break

-do not let players handle the ball. Ref puts it down for them on the break and on a ball in hand.

The bolded part is the more realistic approach.
 
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As for detecting stuff on the ball, there is equipment that can tell the chemical composition of materials at levels far lower than what would be on the ball. Not cheap, so the ball would likely have to be sent to a lab.

I think a better idea is to have a new cue ball for each rack, and no impromptu cleaning by the players. Cue balls do change some during a match if they aren't cleaned.
 
Bob Jewett said:
As for detecting stuff on the ball, there is equipment that can tell the chemical composition of materials at levels far lower than what would be on the ball. Not cheap, so the ball would likely have to be sent to a lab.

I think a better idea is to have a new cue ball for each rack, and no impromptu cleaning by the players. Cue balls do change some during a match if they aren't cleaned.
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I kind of like this idea too. Heck, you can just rotate two cue balls in a match. That's a good approach.
 
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