Billiard Industry needs

Bob Jewett said:
What problems and fixes do you have in mind. How much rating error do the problems cause? Please be clear and specific in your criticism.
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Specifically the challenges I've noticed, to name a few, are endemic to areas like smaller towns. A player who has a strict circuit of players they play against (like league) will not jump up sufficiently to gain points in Fargo of any tangible value. This is a consequence of a closed system and other rating systems have this to, but perhaps not as bad... think elo, glicko, trueskill, atp, fifa, the list goes on. Meaning that if a player only plays a group no ships rise as no tide is lifting them. Instead what should be happening is that the system should look at the delta - marginal improvement guides non-logarithmic results.

I think we can both agree that improvement in this sport is challenging at times. Thus showing improvement shouldn't appear as an early phase logarithm.

The next challenge I have noticed is in reporting cardinality. Not to use you as a use case, but I bet if I looked there is a Robert Jewett and perhaps a bobby Jewett. This lack of cardinality screams and echoes those screams of misuse/abuse and ultimately failure of the intents of Fargo.
 
garczar said:
Hey, i finally thought of one thing pool DIRELY needs: NO fkng phones near a pool table. If you can't turn off the damn for a couple hrs you need to find a new game or more likely a life.
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This is solvable and I love this idea! I have added it to my list. A device that introduces a destructive wave (wave interference). Place these under the various seats at sporting events. I won't build a jammer as that violates several environments - think FCC/911. But I can make a device that could work as noise cancelling headphones but only for confined areas - like small arenas for pool. I don't think the FCC would like it much but maybe if the device's use was indemnified by an agreement and signs/placards.

GREAT IDEA and food for thought.
 
billiards_watch said:
Watching for a double hit would be great.

I can see that as very beneficial.

Now all of this can and cannot be done on the local level.

For example, our gambling games consist of someone taking a video of the hit and going back and replaying it if there is any question. Very useful.
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What about listening for a double hit. Our eyes/ears aren't sensitive enough to make accurate determinations, but electronic devices are. A device that listens for multiple hits within a fraction of a second. If detected then alert (light/sound) otherwise stays silent. This would be easy and inexpensive to build. I like this idea bunches. Adding this to the list too. #SMART.
 
Cardguys3 said:
Specifically the challenges I've noticed, to name a few, are endemic to areas like smaller towns. A player who has a strict circuit of players they play against (like league) will not jump up sufficiently to gain points in Fargo of any tangible value. This is a consequence of a closed system and other rating systems have this to, but perhaps not as bad... think elo, glicko, trueskill, atp, fifa, the list goes on. Meaning that if a player only plays a group no ships rise as no tide is lifting them. Instead what should be happening is that the system should look at the delta - marginal improvement guides non-logarithmic results.

I think we can both agree that improvement in this sport is challenging at times. Thus showing improvement shouldn't appear as an early phase logarithm.

The next challenge I have noticed is in reporting cardinality. Not to use you as a use case, but I bet if I looked there is a Robert Jewett and perhaps a bobby Jewett. This lack of cardinality screams and echoes those screams of misuse/abuse and ultimately failure of the intents of Fargo.
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Eh. .. I think FargoRate is just fine. It is simply a logarithmic scale, where each octave is 100 points, instead of 400 points like in chess. Any town that has trouble registering data in FR will have the same trouble with any other system. The advantage is that since FargoRate is established, players can compare themselves to everyone else worldwide. Beginning players can work on drills to see faster feedback in improvement as a granule step below playing in a FR tournament. The user interface can always be improved, as my name was spelt wrong originally, but a quick email caused a fix to happen.

There are players here who have experimented with tracking their progress https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/my-fargorate-progression.555648/
 
Cardguys3 said:
This is solvable and I love this idea! I have added it to my list. A device that introduces a destructive wave (wave interference). Place these under the various seats at sporting events. I won't build a jammer as that violates several environments - think FCC/911. But I can make a device that could work as noise cancelling headphones but only for confined areas - like small arenas for pool. I don't think the FCC would like it much but maybe if the device's use was indemnified by an agreement and signs/placards.

GREAT IDEA and food for thought.
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"Federal law prohibits the operation, marketing, or sale of any type of jamming equipment that interferes with authorized radio communications, including cellular and Personal Communication Services (PCS), police radar, and Global Positioning Systems (GPS)."
Applicable Law
  • The Communications Act of 1934
    • Section 301 - requires persons operating or using radio transmitters to be licensed or authorized under the Commission’s rules (47 U.S.C. § 301).
    • Section 302(b) - prohibits the manufacture, importation, marketing, sale or operation of signal jammers within the United States (47 U.S.C. § 302a(b)).
    • Section 333 - prohibits willful or malicious interference with the radio communications of any station licensed or authorized under the Act or operated by the U.S. Government (47 U.S.C. § 333).
    • Section 501 – allows for substantial monetary fines and criminal sanctions including imprisonment (47 U.S.C. § 501).
    • Section 503 - allows the FCC to impose forfeitures for willful or repeated violations of the Communications Act, the Commission's rules, regulations, or related orders, as well as for violations of the terms and conditions of any license, certificate, or other Commission authorization, among other things (47 U.S.C. § 503).
    • Sections 510 - allows for seizure of unlawful equipment (47 U.S.C. § 510).
  • The Commission's Rules
    • Section 2.803 - prohibits the manufacture, importation, marketing, sale or operation of unauthorized devices within the United States (47 C.F.R. § 2.803).
    • Section 2.807 - provides for certain limited exceptions, such as the sale to U.S. government users (47 C.F.R. § 2.807).
  • The U.S. Criminal Code(Enforced by the Department of Justice or Department of Homeland Security)
    • Title 18, Section 545 – prohibits the importation of illegal goods into the United States; subjects the operator to possible fines, imprisonment, or both (18 U.S.C. § 545).
    • Title 18, Section 1362 - prohibits willful or malicious interference to US government communications; subjects the operator to possible fines, imprisonment, or both (18 U.S.C. § 1362).
    • Title 18, Section 1367(a) - prohibits intentional or malicious interference to satellite communications, including GPS; subjects the operator to possible fines, imprisonment, or both (18 U.S.C. § 1367(a)).
I am sure other countries have similar laws.
 
Cardguys3 said:
What about listening for a double hit. Our eyes/ears aren't sensitive enough to make accurate determinations, but electronic devices are. A device that listens for multiple hits within a fraction of a second. If detected then alert (light/sound) otherwise stays silent. This would be easy and inexpensive to build. I like this idea bunches. Adding this to the list too. #SMART.
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The BreakDemon does this already: https://breakdemon.com/
Also the DigiBall can do this with a firmware adjustment.
 
Cardguys3 said:
... areas like smaller towns. A player who has a strict circuit of players they play against ...

... I bet if I looked there is a Robert Jewett and perhaps a bobby Jewett. This lack of cardinality ...
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The "problem" of islands has been discussed here before. It's not the problem you imagine.

If you want what you write to be understood by the members here, you should avoid extremely technical words like "cardinality". You could have just said that players need to be identified uniquely. Each has an FR ID number, but there is occasional confusion.

The ambiguous ID issue is a problem but not huge. I think it will not dissappear until pool is far more organized, especially in the US.
 
To the OP, the only idea that I find has any further thought would be the facial recognition system for scoring/*something* pending that permissions are given in advance. Be forewarned that many pool players that don't understand the technology will feel privacy violations.
 
Cardguys3 said:
what could be crafted to improve the billiard community
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The billiard community could be improved if there was a Consumer Reports like evaluation of cue shafts and a description of the materials used in shafts. It could start with deflection scores for ten shafts.

It could publish lists of shafts' energy transferring efficiency of shaft-hit to cue ball (Defy vs Revo!), a description of the technology used (tear the shaft apart and tell players how they are made --- length of carbon-fiber rod in CF/wood shaft; whether cored shaft is hollow, foam or wood; maybe the weight of the first one inch of shaft for deflection purposes.
 
There already is a free, I think, league scoring site called, Stick The Rock, that my 2 leagues use, and many, many other leagues use.
They have at least 2 scoring systems, one with a ratingsystem of one to 100, with no one that I know under 50 in my one league.
The other scoring system goes up to at least 1100 ish for our highest players who are in the vicinity of 700 fargo. Could go higher I guess if you were over a 700 fargo ability.
We don't use fargo, but use our rating and ball count for scoring.
Every ball you make is 10 points or if you win, it's 100 points for one league and 105 points for the other.
The software was developed by one of the guys on our league. They are handicapped leagues.
 
I'd love to see a cue stroking machine that can deliver a human like stroke that's ULTRA repeatable, consistent, accurate and minutely adjustable. A machine that could send a ball around the table and have it stop in the SAME place. Imagine being able to precisely evaluate and quantify cue deflection, 'power transfer', effect of different tips, chalks, cleaning liquids, etc. instead of relying on various manufacturer's marketing claims. Dr. Dave does a fantastic job measuring these things, but he's only human.
 
I'm a big advocate of getting the amateur or non elite players more chances to compete. It'd be cool if pool players could enter a tournament with the same outlook as amateur poker players. I think aggressive shot clocks help level the playing field and offer a more watchable product by reducing overtly slow play and adding drama. Tournaments based on Fargo are also nice to allow for a more open competition. Adding gambling options on matches would also be huge. Even if it's just on the last few matches of a tournament. Something on a micro-stat level like PrizePicks would also be awesome.
 
skip100 said:
What is "micro cavitation"?
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The OP seems to have been referring to the "island" problem of a group of players who are inbred, play-wise. They are sort of a bubble. Cavitation is the formation of bubbles in liquid, such as when propellers on boats move too fast. (Bad for the propeller.)
 
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