Soft hitting custom cue maker cues?

Jimmy_Betmore said:
I can't help myself here because I love this topic.

So, I always thought I preferred softer hitting cues. But after a lot of time at the table and way too much cash, what I figured out was that I like a relatively stiff shaft but quiet hit. I ordered a Samsara new from them around 25 years ago. Holy hell... Any hit even slightly off center make the most god awful (to me) "PING!" or "PLINK!" sound. The cue moved the ball around very nicely and felt great in my hands. But that sound drove me nuts. So I ended up changing the melamine ferrule and Sumo tip to an ivory ferrule with a Moori tip. That made all the difference in the world. It went from "PING!" or "PLINK!" to a noticeable but satisfying "Dink." (That looks ridiculous in words. But I bet most of you know what I'm talking about.) And the taper didn't change so it was still stiff and moved the cue ball around beautifully. That cue is the only thing I've ever regretted selling.
Click to expand...
Ugh...been looking for years for one of those Samsara's with the "ping". They changed the original pin and I think that took out that noise.
 
doitforthegame said:
Ugh...been looking for years for one of those Samsara's with the "ping". They changed the original pin and I think that took out that noise.
Click to expand...
I ordered mine with a standard radial pin and, as far as I know, they'll put pretty much whatever pin you want in it. But it wasn't the pin. It was the tip and ferrule. The old ones came with Sumo tips that were hard as rocks and LBM ferrules. As soon as I changed those out that noise went away. The cue still hit wonderfully and had a ton of feedback. It just didn't sound like an aluminum baseball bat anymore. And I'm not knocking you for liking that characteristic in a cue. People like different things. It just wasn't for me.

Side note: Samsara cues are criminally underrated. Or at least they were back then. I have no idea if they're still made to the same quality level because I haven't seen a newer one up close in years. But I'd put that cue's build quality up against any other cue out there. It was perfect in every way.
 
S
garczar said:
Folks the joint/pin have NOTHING to do with soft/firm hit. I've hit steel joint cues that were really soft and flat-face big pin wood-2-wood that were stiff and almost harsh feeling. The taper/ferrule/tip have WAY more to do with hit than any specific joint type.
Click to expand...
Sorry dude, but you'll never change my mind about this. Joint type absolutely affects hit. Any player worth his seed can tell you that.
 
David in FL said:
I'm curious, what has happened to change your perspective from a few short years ago...?

CeaseLess

Post in thread '300-600 dollar cue advice'

Ghost of OBC said:
I play Schmelke cues. For your budget you could get a player and a breaker, maybe fit a keilwood or carbon shaft in the budget as well. Made in USA. Not fancy, but honest.
Click to expand...
That is also what I play with currently, I think they might hit a bit soft for my liking.

Did you find a firmer hitting cue and decide that you really do prefer the soft hitting cue that you previously had?
Click to expand...
I bet it has something to do with him playing more one pocket now.
 
Jimmy_Betmore said:
They're the best I've used from an appearance hit perspective. Although, I did have an older Schon that was extremely similar to the current STL 07 model. It wasn't an R Series and had inlaid points. But it had a pretty sweet ferrule on it as well. I don't think it was micarta because it didn't have any kind of weave to it and it definitely didn't have that old mason's micarta yellow patina. It was kind of an off-white/cream color. But whatever it was, it didn't stain with chalk and held a nice polish. It also hit ten times better than the new Schon shaft I got to go with it.

Having said all that, I would like to try Tomahawk. I've heard it's got a good hit, polishes nicely, and doesn't stain.
Click to expand...
I had tomahawk put on some new shafts made for me and couldn't be happier!! You get good feedback from such a hard material. Consistent, easy to clean. No worries.
 
Paul_#_ said:
Buy McDermott Defy shaft now!
McDermott designed that shaft to be softer with a non-carbon-fiber sound. They did that by using special carbon-fiber rod or a CF coating to absorb vibration. McDermott succeeded. See YouTube videos of a Defy shaft dropped on a pool table and not bouncing. This is unusual and, as Dr Dave and Bob Jewett have shown, this can be made into a test of energy transfer efficiency of hit to cue ball. Players swear by the Defy shaft and speak of its soft hit. I think this is what you are looking for in your softer, more subtle or buttery hit.

This sounds wrong to me but your request sounds exactly why McDermott did what it did with its Defy (less the need for a non-boinking sound).

McDermott's description of the CF used in Defy:
  • SmacWrap, originally designed for the aerospace industry, absorbs vibration and dampens noise resulting in a confident hit with a soft feel and quiet sound
YouTuber pleasantly surprised at Defy's no-bounce shaft:

Bob Jewett's and Dr Dave's easy bounce test for energy efficiency:

AZers speak of the soft (buttery?) Defy hit:
T

Thread 'McDermott Defy'

While researching CF shafts, I've noticed very little feedback on the McDermott Defy. Even smaller companies like GO Customs have more reviews out there than the Defy & when reviewers do mass comparisons it usually isn't included. Given McDermott's size & presence, it D/N make sense to me.

If it were a terrible product I would still expect to see a lot of bad reviews out there, but there's next to nothing. It seems like people are rabid for CF & "the next big thing." Why don't people care about the Defy?
View attachment 844551
Click to expand...
The Irish have always been a fave among the soft hit 'implex' crowd.
 
Mensabum said:
The Irish have always been a fave among the soft hit 'implex' crowd.
Click to expand...
"Implex" means intricate, involved, entangled, complicated, or complex. It can be used as an adjective to describe something with many interconnected parts or layers, making it difficult to understand or resolve.​
__​
I think McDermott did the same implexed approach in its G-Core and i-series shafts that employ a wood and carbon-fiber sandwich. See https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/wood-over-cf-shaft-options.578774/#post-8212487
 
Paul_#_ said:
"Implex" means intricate, involved, entangled, complicated, or complex. It can be used as an adjective to describe something with many interconnected parts or layers, making it difficult to understand or resolve.​
__​
I think McDermott did the same implexed approach in its G-Core and i-series shafts that employ a wood and carbon-fiber sandwich. See https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/wood-over-cf-shaft-options.578774/#post-8212487
Click to expand...
I was using implex in this case for the old heads who recall the day when anything other than an SS jointed cue was called 'implex.'
I stand corrected. 😉
 
Mensabum said:
S

Sorry dude, but you'll never change my mind about this. Joint type absolutely affects hit. Any player worth his seed can tell you that.
Click to expand...
I'd never say that the pin has zero influence over how a cue hits. But I will say with 100% confidence that it's a very small piece of a very big puzzle. Based on my experiences, the tip plays the largest part in how a cue "hits." Right after that, it's a mishmash of ferrule material/construction and shaft geometry. And after that it's another mishmash of joint material, butt geometry, butt construction, butt material. In the distance is pin type.

Take any cue and swap its shaft with one from a different maker or company and there's a near 100% chance it will play very differently.
 
Mensabum said:
S

Sorry dude, but you'll never change my mind about this. Joint type absolutely affects hit. Any player worth his seed can tell you that.
Click to expand...
Sorry dude but they'd be wrong. Nothing but more pool 'old wives tales'. Someone hits a cue they like and they automatically 'assume' that the joint is a big reason. Its not. I will always refer to the test done on the Texas Express tour yrs ago where SEVENTY % of 800 tests could not identify the joint. Hell one tester was a Meucci staff player and he said a steel-joint Adam was a Meucci. The tip, ferrule, shaft taper DO have a 'feelable' effect but not the joint. Here's the old link: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.billiard/c/SgU43CN6aEc Not sayin joint has no effect but its WAY down the list on things that add up to cue's 'hit'.
 
Jimmy_Betmore said:
I'd never say that the pin has zero influence over how a cue hits. But I will say with 100% confidence that it's a very small piece of a very big puzzle. Based on my experiences, the tip plays the largest part in how a cue "hits." Right after that, it's a mishmash of ferrule material/construction and shaft geometry. And after that it's another mishmash of joint material, butt geometry, butt construction, butt material. In the distance is pin type.

Take any cue and swap its shaft with one from a different maker or company and there's a near 100% chance it will play very differently.
Click to expand...
If that test was done today the results would be the same. I agree 100% here, there ARE factors that have a major/direct influence on 'hit' but the joint is not one of them. One example: i used to think that all flat-face wood-2-wood joint cues had a soft hit. The reason? My FF joint history was Huebler/McDermott/Meucci, all pretty soft hitting cues. Then i hit a SW. WTF? That was the stiffest, 'pingiest' fkn cue i ever hit. It wasn't the joint 'talking' it was their taper/tip/ferrule combo.
 
CeaseLess said:
It seems that most of the custom cues I've hit with tend to be stiffer. Are there any cue makers that make a cue with softer, more subtle or buttery hit? Also what shafts have you played with that you recommend for a softer or whippier hit? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Just change your ferrule to a softer high action one and tip to a softer one and extend the taper on your wood shaft and your cue will play much more like you described.
 
cueman said:
Just change your ferrule to a softer high action one and tip to a softer one and extend the taper on your wood shaft and your cue will play much more like you described.
Click to expand...
This is what I was thinking and looking into, I'm checking out ferrules now. I know meucci and dufferin, which I love the hit of were using polycarbonate(?) Plastic ferrules, any input on softer materials for ferrules?
 
Nick8400 said:
I had a couple Schons that hit real soft. I’ve never played with a Runde though. I’d be curious to know if his cues have a similar feel. I hope to buy one of his cues soon.

I also find radial pin cues to feel like a softer hit. Am I the only?
Click to expand...
I've never hit with a Schon that didn't feel like a piece of rebar. I like Schon, but it has always been the opposite of soft. Strong taper, LBM ferrules, and the "i can't believe that's leather" tips they come stock with have always translated to an ultra stiff hit. Played with a few Schon's back in the 2007-2013 days and always liked them. With the LBM ferrule you could hear my cue from the parking lot with the ping on a broken in tip.
 
Jimmy_Betmore said:
The old ones came with Sumo tips that were hard as rocks and LBM ferrules
Click to expand...
JusticeNJ said:
I like Schon, but it has always been the opposite of soft. Strong taper, LBM ferrules, and the "i can't believe that's leather" tips they come stock with have always translated to an ultra stiff hit
Click to expand...
What are LBM ferrules? See discussion at
brilliance

Thread 'LBM vs Juma ferrules?'

Your opinion on these two, what you prefer and why?
 
JusticeNJ said:
I've never hit with a Schon that didn't feel like a piece of rebar. I like Schon, but it has always been the opposite of soft. Strong taper, LBM ferrules, and the "i can't believe that's leather" tips they come stock with have always translated to an ultra stiff hit. Played with a few Schon's back in the 2007-2013 days and always liked them. With the LBM ferrule you could hear my cue from the parking lot with the ping on a broken in tip.
Click to expand...
You are the second person to correct me on this. I had a few schons and always found the hit to be soft. Maybe I had super soft tips on em. Or my memory is failing me. Either way, I guess I was wrong.
 
garczar said:
Sorry dude but they'd be wrong. Nothing but more pool 'old wives tales'. Someone hits a cue they like and they automatically 'assume' that the joint is a big reason. Its not. I will always refer to the test done on the Texas Express tour yrs ago where SEVENTY % of 800 tests could not identify the joint. Hell one tester was a Meucci staff player and he said a steel-joint Adam was a Meucci. The tip, ferrule, shaft taper DO have a 'feelable' effect but not the joint. Here's the old link: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.billiard/c/SgU43CN6aEc Not sayin joint has no effect but its WAY down the list on things that add up to cue's 'hit'.
Click to expand...
I'll agree with that.
 
Paul_#_ said:
What are LBM ferrules? See discussion at
brilliance

Thread 'LBM vs Juma ferrules?'

Your opinion on these two, what you prefer and why?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. The screen cap of Joey's post confirms exactly what I experienced with the Samsara I ordered straight from them. His comment about LBM needing to be sealed to keep out chalk dust is spot on as well. If you manage to remove its sealant the weave will end up with chalk dust in it that's basically impossible to get out.

1755774896158.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top