"Lock and load" the shoulder to control movement?

VTEC John

VTEC John

Active member
Can't recall where I heard this and it even may have been something Dr. Dave mentioned. If I understood correctly, it was about cocking the right shoulder up and back into a stable, kind of locked position. The benefit being that it easy to keep it there and keep the shoulder out of your stroke. That's a problem I can't seem to cure despite long effort. Does anyone out there use this lock and load idea? Thanks.
 
It’s funny because I would typically say you want to be comfortable and stable while carrying zero unnecessary tension in the stroke. And I’d say that includes the shoulder.

But I have had experiences where I’m sure I missed due to shoulder drop. And in some cases I experimented with correcting that with some intensional shoulder tension to lock it up. And I’d play like that for the rest of the session and it seemed to help.

Then I’d usually finish, go home, get sleep, and forget all about it. It’s not something I’ve internalized into my game consistently. But the idea does keep popping up on me. So I’m a bit piqued to see this thread.
 
VTEC John said:
Can't recall where I heard this and it even may have been something Dr. Dave mentioned. If I understood correctly, it was about cocking the right shoulder up and back into a stable, kind of locked position. The benefit being that it easy to keep it there and keep the shoulder out of your stroke. That's a problem I can't seem to cure despite long effort. Does anyone out there use this lock and load idea? Thanks.
Click to expand...

My personal opinion is that no one thing like this can work in isolation of all the other parts and movements that play essential roles in the construct of a pool stroke.

Lou Figueroa
 
VTEC John said:
Can't recall where I heard this and it even may have been something Dr. Dave mentioned. If I understood correctly, it was about cocking the right shoulder up and back into a stable, kind of locked position. The benefit being that it easy to keep it there and keep the shoulder out of your stroke. That's a problem I can't seem to cure despite long effort. Does anyone out there use this lock and load idea? Thanks.
Click to expand...
To hinge or not to hinge.
Lock the shoulder, lock the chin.
It’s like waterskiing, once you get up you know how to get up forever.
When you know how to do it you know how to do it.

It’s not forced, it’s not a parking brake, it’s not strained or pressure. It’s not as mechanical as some think.
If you can keep your head and body still and send the cue ball with your eyes it’s a plus.

Is it necessary? I don’t know.
Is it a thing? Definitely, for sure,
 
its all about doing the stroke no matter how screwed up it looks like as long as it is straight and you can repeat it automatically during stress.

anything un natural for you will ultimately hold you back from improving.
 
maha said:
anything un natural for you will ultimately hold you back from improving.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that. Mark Wilson addresses that idea in relation to his recommended stance. He says it WILL feel unnatural at first, but the more you work on it and practice it, the more natural it will feel. For me, it's natural to walk up to the cue ball and slump my body on the table in a haphazard way and shoot the shot, but I know if I go through my PSR and step into the shot in a predetermined way, which I have spent long hours practicing, I have better results.

The same could be said of the grip: for me it's natural to tighten up my grip when I hit draw, but the results are terrible. Practicing the (unnatural for me) loose grip while I am hitting draw produces better results.

Getting my chin as low as possible to the cue stick is not natural for me, rather it's something I have to work on.

A closed bridge is not natural for anyone when they first try it, and it takes a lot of hours of practice for it to feel comfortable. When I first started playing pool, I used an open bridge. As I improved, I noticed that the good players used a closed bridge, so I switched to a closed bridge. Alas, now the pros use an open bridge and things have come full circle.

I don't think a pendulum stroke is natural for anyone. It takes a lot of practice to keep your elbow still.

I think there is a lot of stuff in pool that may initially feel unnatural, but they can be practiced until they feel natural, and they will improve your game.
 
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yes if you practice long enough you can adapt to an un natural movement. but will you revert to your natural one under stress, or4 when you need to do your most powerful strokes. maybe yes maybe no.

do what works for you not what some pro tells you is best for you.
and if your stroke is straight, its crazy to start changing it because someone says its wrong. because it is not wrong. just wrong in their mind.
 
There is no mechanism to lock your shoulder. The only thing that holds it in position pretty well is getting extremely low to the table so the soft tissue holds the shoulder in place pretty well. If you can't get low to the table the shoulder will have excess movement and the pendulum stroke becomes almost impossible.

Lots of strokes will work. Walk across the room. Now walk across the room again trying to hold the shoulder motionless. We have been swinging our entire arm since we started walking and I think swinging the entire arm is more natural.

This is an old thread I started. As the title indicates a bit tongue in cheek but if I remember correctly some good discussion with knowledgeable people. A warning, I haven't read it in years myself!

Hu

ShootingArts

Thread 'The pendulum stroke must die!'

The pendulum stroke must die. Or perhaps to be more accurate, I am moving on from a "pure" pendulum stroke for awhile. For over a year I have mostly used the pendulum stroke but have always shot better when I free wheeled and simply let my arm move naturally, shoulder, elbow, and wrist working together like they did in my peak years. Over 95% of the time since I have came back to pool I have hung with the pendulum assuming it should eventually be worth the effort. Perhaps, but I'm not reaching my goals with it. Time to at least test another approach.

The next few months should be...
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If you can consistently run racks, continue what you are doing.

It may be possible to change/correct MINOR things that will improve your game, but if you can already run racks you don't need to fix your stroke.

Not everyone is built the same way and not everyone feels comfortable doing things the same exact way.

The key is to figure it out your way and then try to emulate that process each time you shoot.
 
Slow your stroke way, way, way, way down to a slow motion stroke until you can obtain the "pure" process that you want, then once you have the correct process then start to add bits of speed to your swing.
 
VTEC John said:
Can't recall where I heard this and it even may have been something Dr. Dave mentioned. If I understood correctly, it was about cocking the right shoulder up and back into a stable, kind of locked position. The benefit being that it easy to keep it there and keep the shoulder out of your stroke. That's a problem I can't seem to cure despite long effort. Does anyone out there use this lock and load idea? Thanks.
Click to expand...

For those interested, this technique is discussed and demonstrated in several places on this page:

 
I will check that out Dr Dave. I only get to hit balls a couple times per week and every time I get to the table I feel like I'm starting over.
Where did I hold my shoulder last time? Did it just hang or did I shrug a bit? Perhaps I pulled it back that day I was hitting them really well.
Where I put my shoulder directly affects my alignment. Do I step forward toward the target or to the side of the target? That depends upon if my shoulder is pulled back this time or not. I don't play enough to have anything grooved into memory.
 
dr_dave said:
For those interested, this technique is discussed and demonstrated in several places on this page:

Click to expand...
I’m not the only nut job?
I was on the verge of swallowing a pill, thinking that I might be crazy. Thank you for confirming I'm not alone.
Don’t forget the chin.

VTEC John said:
Can't recall where I heard this and it even may have been something Dr. Dave mentioned. If I understood correctly, it was about cocking the right shoulder up and back into a stable, kind of locked position. The benefit being that it easy to keep it there and keep the shoulder out of your stroke. That's a problem I can't seem to cure despite long effort. Does anyone out there use this lock and load idea? Thanks.
Click to expand...

SmoothStroke​

To hinge or not to hinge.
Lock the shoulder, lock the chin.
It’s like waterskiing, once you get up you know how to get up forever.
When you know how to do it you know how to do it.
It’s not forced, it’s not a parking brake, it’s not strained or pressure. It’s not as mechanical as some think.
If you can keep your head and body still and send the cue ball with your eyes it’s a plus.
Is it necessary? I don’t know.
Is it a thing? Definitely, for sure,
 
JolietJames said:
I will check that out Dr Dave. I only get to hit balls a couple times per week and every time I get to the table I feel like I'm starting over.
Where did I hold my shoulder last time? Did it just hang or did I shrug a bit? Perhaps I pulled it back that day I was hitting them really well.
Where I put my shoulder directly affects my alignment. Do I step forward toward the target or to the side of the target? That depends upon if my shoulder is pulled back this time or not. I don't play enough to have anything grooved into memory.
Click to expand...
do you think all that thru when you drive your car. or hit a golf ball, or take a walk down the street? could you ever learn to do those things the way someone else tells you to?
no, of course not .

and if you wont practice at all, and dont play enough you are always going to suck as then you are still a beginner by choice. nothing wrong with that. but to improve at anything takes some work or time at it.

so just walk up to the shot and just naturally put your hand down and shoot it. do it over and over till its second nature. then you will do it your way every time and play well.
 
maha said:
do you think all that thru when you drive your car. or hit a golf ball, or take a walk down the street? could you ever learn to do those things the way someone else tells you to?
no, of course not .

and if you wont practice at all, and dont play enough you are always going to suck as then you are still a beginner by choice. nothing wrong with that. but to improve at anything takes some work or time at it.

so just walk up to the shot and just naturally put your hand down and shoot it. do it over and over till its second nature. then you will do it your way every time and play well.
Click to expand...
Currently, my business is demanding all of my time so pool is taking a back seat.
My Fargo is still over 600, so I wouldn't say I suck. I'm out of stroke so my mechanics need to be reset.
The couple times a week I can spare 20 minutes or so is not as well spent as it would be if I was able to drop into the comfortable position of old.
 
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