What do you think would happen if there were no handicaps, in any leagues or tournaments, and all tournaments were Open to all skill levels?
- Thread starter vintagecollectibles831
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OP
That depends on which generation of players your talking to.
The land of hard knocks never did increase play much.
Stats/BCA.... USA averages were 20 mil players/Color of Money made it 30 Mil players for a decade, then back to 20.
Now, different era of mankind.
I don't mind handicapping the event, but NOT the entry fee.
I don't enjoy paying more entry fee$ as I got better.
What do you think would happen if there were no handicaps, in any leagues or tournaments, and all tournaments were Open to all skill levels?
That depends on which generation of players your talking to.
The land of hard knocks never did increase play much.
Stats/BCA.... USA averages were 20 mil players/Color of Money made it 30 Mil players for a decade, then back to 20.
Now, different era of mankind.
I don't mind handicapping the event, but NOT the entry fee.
I don't enjoy paying more entry fee$ as I got better.
I'm all for handicapping! I mean, without handicapping I have to say Shane beat me like a rented mule, a whitewash.
With handicapping I can say Well Shane did manage to get by me but I was giving him the crackles and the seven out!
A guy was talking about bringing AJ Foyt to race in our little weekly show when he was available in a car that cost a dozen times what mine did. As a local owner/driver the track owner asked me what I thought. "Hell yeah! If AJ beats me nobody will even notice. If I beat AJ I'll rent out a billboard!"
Hu
With handicapping I can say Well Shane did manage to get by me but I was giving him the crackles and the seven out!
A guy was talking about bringing AJ Foyt to race in our little weekly show when he was available in a car that cost a dozen times what mine did. As a local owner/driver the track owner asked me what I thought. "Hell yeah! If AJ beats me nobody will even notice. If I beat AJ I'll rent out a billboard!"
Hu
George the Greek
Well-known member
Somebody wins a new Predator cue prettywell at every event. Last season a lady broke in the 10-ball challenge and picked up $2505.00 by pocketing 3 balls at $835/ ball. They hold alot of memorial and charity events as well as a junior program.
You don't know me.
I'd probably play them 9B even up, at least until they got onto it.
That is not what is being offered--you play them at their game heads-up no handicap.
In my observations, those at the bottom of the pecking order in pool halls sometimes quit, but more often than not they just left the pool hall and went to bars where there were boxes to play on that are shorter, less wide, and With bigger pockets than the tables at the pool hall.
Pool just died off around me so bars it was. Bummer at first but without the jock crowd the genre of pool became much clearer.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Well that would just be ignorant! I'd rather bring them down to my level and beat them with years of experience!
If this happened leagues would collapse. The truth is people are more interested in an illusion of competition and being good and less in actually trying to get better. Another hobby you mine is archery. Participation in amateur tournaments for archery is low because there is no handicap. They tried to handicap a league I was in. With the system they came up with I would have had to shoot a world record score to win. When I pointed that out everybody laughed.
Not everybody has the talent or ability to compete in pool at a high level. To think they consider their match against another level 3 or 4 an “illusion of competition” is a huge insult. Some of those people play in a league 4 to 6 nights a week. They truly get excited when they win. They truly get excited when they move up a rank. They are what pays the bills at the local pool hall, and keeps the money rolling in and the doors open at places like McDermott, Players, Joss, Meucci, and all the manufacturers. They pay the $$$ to fund the tournament you “egotists” play in. Without handicapping they would be gone. A few of them might still pick up a cue in a bar, but there would not be a pool scene as we know it now. I am always amazed when I read these pages and hear of people denigrating these players, or worse yet fleecing them instead of reaching out to them with encouragement or offering help and teaching. I’m extremely thankful we have handicaps to keep the industry thriving.
That really doesn't answer any of my questions. Its a stretch thinking someone will improve by going 2 and out every time they enter a tournament. Even if they did somehow improve they will most likely choke when the pressure is really on in the late rounds because they have never been there. By the same token that a lower ranked player should not be happy if he wins because hE GoT a CouPLe Of gAmEs On The WIrE does he get to brag and collect his "trophy" and exclaim "yippie" if he wins a straight up race to 1?? Is it just handicapped tournaments you don't like or is it also capped tournaments that are bad?? Just so I understand correctly you would rather play in a tournament with only 7 entries and win $50 so you can say "yippie", I won a few matches rather than win over a field of 120 where you make decent money from both the tournament prize fund and the calcutta even though you had to give up a game or 2 or heaven forbid get a game or 2?? Even pro's don't have too big of an ego to not give up or take a few on the wire when matching up, cause that's what it really comes down to is ego, right??
That reminds me of sometime in the 90's Earnhardt came up here (was hired in I believe) to run the Slinger Nationals at out local high banked 1/4 mile, its like a tint Bristol. He hops in one of the local's cars that he would drive for the night, runs a few laps, comes in and has them change the springs and shock settings to his desire then goes out to win the 100 lap feature in short order against guys that have run 1,000's of laps there.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Going two and out is precisely how I improved at foosball in my twenties playing against nationally ranked players with no handicaps.
if i was gambling they would be just the perfect people to play with.
as i would know almost exactly how or what they would shoot.
so i would make the game that gave me the biggest edge. and take the money down.
against someone i dont know or is erratic it is much tougher unless he accepts a ridiculously low spot.
ive played golf with a few big pros and it isnt really fun as they are playing like on a different course than me.
and i used to play well.
but i gambled with many club pro's and most on their own course. they would play for fun on the course and easily out score me.
they then were stupid and played even on their own putting greens where we gambled.
and i used to play well.
but i gambled with many club pro's and most on their own course. they would play for fun on the course and easily out score me.
they then were stupid and played even on their own putting greens where we gambled.
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Way back when one of the executives for the corporation I worked for played in a pro-am. Lee Trevino and Jack Nicholas were the pros. The Golden Bear was last off of the first tee and hit about a hundred yards further than anyone else stopping in the center of the green. The executive knew he was in for a long humiliating day. The executive wasn't bad, he won a couple of senior tour events after retirement. There is good, then there are gods. Jack was monster good.
Hu
I always paid close attention to how the champs set up their cars. One night I came within a gnat's ass of beating the local god. The only time that year he had been passed on a local track or three. Something slipped in my accelerator linkage and I lost about fifty RPM. I let him back by without a fight. Talking to an old midget driver that was a friend of mine he commented, You know, he always has his accelerator pedal set up real high. Good enough for Chick, good enough for me. If something slipped I still had plenty of leeway but I found another advantage. Going in the turns with a late model I almost always had to back off the secondaries at least a second. With that pedal up so high, I could back off the secondaries with my ankle but I had to lift my heel to back off the primaries. Made the car easier to drive!
Hu
The little things can make the biggest differences. When I was building a SODA Pro 2 off road truck for a customer I made his throttle linkage ratio adjustable so he could change the carb opening rate depending on if the track was slick or tight.
Dozens of little things make a competition car or truck unique. Rains caused us to run the championship race the first of the next season. I had sold my car and the new one wasn't ready so I was offered a car. No chance for testing or set-up, the throttle stuck with me driving the car and the car handled like caca. About three laps in I spun and just sat in the infield. Another funny story I will DM to you sometime, too long to go in another thread.
Almost anything I competed in was run what you brung. The few things that weren't I was in the top division so it was still run what you brung. I could probably beat anyone in the world with the lemon crush but it would be pretty hard to brag about that! Beating some of the best in the US which meant best in the world back then, that was something to brag about, big table or bar table in a dingy old bar. One of my prouder tales is of a canny old road player that scouted me for three nights and decided to talk instead of playing!
Nothing wrong with starting or even long term play at any level. You gotta get off the porch sooner or later if you want to run with the big dogs though.
I think it was Scotty Townsend that was offered a two ball spot once by a top player. Scotty told him to double the bet and stick the spot where the sun didn't shine! Getting Scotty fired up was never a smart thing to do.
A kid was trying to get a shortstop out of his chair. The kid started offering spots, the short stop didn't even appear to be listening. Finally the kid screamed, "I'll give you the seven!" The old shortstop reached for his cue with a grin, "Son, I have been waiting all my life for somebody to offer me the seven."
Hu