Feedback on My Stroke & Mechanics – Looking to Improve Fundamentals

Bob Jewett said:
The largest mistake -- in my view -- that a lot of players make when futzing with their grip to keep it loose is that they allow daylight around the stick. Your hand should be touching the stick all the way around. An error would be letting the cue drop down away from the web between thumb and index finger.

If there is daylight through the grip, the shape of your hand will change during the stroke because at some point your hand will close, either to get speed into the cue or to keep the cue from flying down the table after it hits the cue ball. Changing the shape of your hand during the stroke is a complication that I think you should avoid.
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While I agree with you that no gap is best for most, Mark Wilson and Tor Lowry , who recommend a gap, aren't teaching their students a fatal flaw.

The key distinction in the technique they advocate for is that the hand doean't close or change shape like you say it must. It doesn't have to. The cue pivots withon the grip while the hamd remains relaxed. I've played with this grip in my younger years amd it works great, but it can look sloppy at finish.

On tour, Efren was the poster child for this type of loose cradle with a gap and would often finish his stroke with his hand flying open amd only his middle finger on the cue. The cue might slip a bit at times after contact, but it doean't fly down the table. I played this way for years and not once did the cue fully fly out of my hand

Players that prefer this grip, tend to prefer tackier wraps or wrapleas cues where the varnished wood kimd of sticka to their fingers.

Totally agree that a hand changing shape and the cue beimg moved aroumd is a killer, but that's not what is happening for the good players that play this way nor is this being recommended by the coaches who teach this style. The hand doean't need to close. These atrokes just work a bit differently than those which utilize the closing of the hand for force production.
 
WobblyStroke said:
While I agree with you that no gap is best for most, Mark Wilson and Tor Lowry , who recommend a gap, aren't teaching their students a fatal flaw.
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It's not a fatal flaw, just as sidearm is not a fatal flaw. In my view, it is not something that should be taught to beginners. I think it is an overreaction to tight grips. In particular, I think a "daylight" grip is poor for power shots, and a student will have a harder time developing a powerful stroke -- as is required for good draw -- with it.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's not a fatal flaw, just as sidearm is not a fatal flaw. In my view, it is not something that should be taught to beginners. I think it is an overreaction to tight grips. In particular, I think a "daylight" grip is poor for power shots, and a student will have a harder time developing a powerful stroke -- as is required for good draw -- with it.
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Bob, I practiced a little bit using a grip with no space(but not tightly gripping the cue), and the thing I noticed the most is that the grip restricts my backswing for full length swings. With a loose grip, I can take the cue back farther, which results in more cue speed. Do you teach letting go with the little fingers to get a full backswing?

As for power draw, I noticed that Tyler Styer uses a closed bridge for all(?) his draw shots, and he uses an open bridge for his other shots. To me, it feels better on power draw shots to use a closed bridge rather than an open bridge. I don't like the feeling of my tip bouncing off the table and the cue rising above my bridge on power draw shots when I use an open bridge and a loose grip.
 
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7stud said:
... Do you teach letting go with the little fingers to get a full backswing? ...
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I think that happens naturally for most people and does not have to be taught. It develops with finding the feel of a stroke that gets the proper action with minimum effort. It can be pointed out to someone who does not get it automatically.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's not a fatal flaw, just as sidearm is not a fatal flaw. In my view, it is not something that should be taught to beginners. I think it is an overreaction to tight grips. In particular, I think a "daylight" grip is poor for power shots, and a student will have a harder time developing a powerful stroke -- as is required for good draw -- with it.
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Strongly disagree on the power. Effortless cue power is a staple of this technique.

This goes back to my point on not being able to mix and match stroke components from different stroke concepts and why it would be best for OP to find one trusted voice to guide him. Fwiw, your snug grip style would be a great fit for him imo. But what I'm getting at is that I don't doubt that you are right that the gap grip would be bad for power if you left everything the same about your stroke and just chamged the grip. However, as stated, different strokes work differemtly and generate speed differemtly. If one generates speed in a manner compatible with a gap grip as any coach teaching it would, since they too teach a whole stroke where all parts fit together, the power of the loose gap grip is extremely high. Snap draws, in particular, are intense with this technique.
 
Bob Jewett said:
To minimize body movement, lock the back knee and keep that leg straight -- that anchors the bottom of the body -- and lock the bridge arm -- that anchors the upper body.
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Bob-

I never thought about this before, but I tried this and it makes a big difference, especially on long shots. Great tip!

-dj
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Stay down after the shot for a second. This gives you the chance to evaluate and it ensures that your stance is stable
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In the Ronnie O'Sullivan video you posted, Ronnie moves the shaft a lot after he hits ball at 6:35 and doesn't stay down long after the shot.

Not so at 7:30 where after hitting ball, the shaft is straight and he stays down several seconds after hitting ball.
 
WobblyStroke said:
While I agree with you that no gap is best for most, Mark Wilson and Tor Lowry , who recommend a gap, aren't teaching their students a fatal flaw.

The key distinction in the technique they advocate for is that the hand doean't close or change shape like you say it must. It doesn't have to. The cue pivots withon the grip while the hamd remains relaxed. I've played with this grip in my younger years amd it works great, but it can look sloppy at finish.

On tour, Efren was the poster child for this type of loose cradle with a gap and would often finish his stroke with his hand flying open amd only his middle finger on the cue. The cue might slip a bit at times after contact, but it doean't fly down the table. I played this way for years and not once did the cue fully fly out of my hand

Players that prefer this grip, tend to prefer tackier wraps or wrapleas cues where the varnished wood kimd of sticka to their fingers.

Totally agree that a hand changing shape and the cue beimg moved aroumd is a killer, but that's not what is happening for the good players that play this way nor is this being recommended by the coaches who teach this style. The hand doean't need to close. These atrokes just work a bit differently than those which utilize the closing of the hand for force production.
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Mark teaches a gap..?News to me...
 
7stud said:
Bob, I practiced a little bit using a grip with no space(but not tightly gripping the cue), and the thing I noticed the most is that the grip restricts my backswing for full length swings. With a loose grip, I can take the cue back farther, which results in more cue speed. Do you teach letting go with the little fingers to get a full backswing?

As for power draw, I noticed that Tyler Styer uses a closed bridge for all(?) his draw shots, and he uses an open bridge for his other shots. To me, it feels better on power draw shots to use a closed bridge rather than an open bridge. I don't like the feeling of my tip bouncing off the table and the cue rising above my bridge on power draw shots when I use an open bridge and a loose grip.
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Its like this: If you can draw better with a closed bridge, us it.Same if you do with an open bridge.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's not a fatal flaw, just as sidearm is not a fatal flaw. In my view, it is not something that should be taught to beginners. I think it is an overreaction to tight grips. In particular, I think a "daylight" grip is poor for power shots, and a student will have a harder time developing a powerful stroke -- as is required for good draw -- with it.
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A side arm can cause big problems and its something I would not tolerate a student using...we're not all Keith Mcready..;-)
 
Bob Jewett said:
I find that very hard to believe. Can you explain why?
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Why would that be hard to believe? Every player I can think of who has a gap has insane cue power...even good local amateurs. Efren and Santos Sambajon jr would be the pro poster boys I guess. Everyone can check out their snap draws on youtube if they have any doubts about gap grips being able to generate tremendous power.

As for a full on explanation of why, I'm like that rapper whose milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.... I could teach you, but I'd have to charge ;)
 
WobblyStroke said:
Why would that be hard to believe? Every player I can think of who has a gap has insane cue power...even good local amateurs. Efren and Santos Sambajon jr would be the pro poster boys I guess. Everyone can check out their snap draws on youtube if they have any doubts about gap grips being able to generate tremendous power.

As for a full on explanation of why, I'm like that rapper whose milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.... I could teach you, but I'd have to charge ;)
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Efren has no gap in his grip, he only lets go of the cue on the final delivery so I'll pass on those milkshakes...
 
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