WNT Hanoi Open 2025, Vietnam, Oct 7-12

[Vahmurka]

I think Robbie Capito might be a player to watch at the Hanoi Open. His form is very strong right now,

Watching Robbie's performance vs Chinakhov (x2 speed mode advised ) would make you reconsider. Struggled big time. Okay, only first day in, but still, did not look like his former self.

 

[sjm]

Take what you make punishes good breaks. Example, make 3 solids, squat the cueball, have no shot on a solid, you lose the game for breaking good. 8ball should always be played open after break and alternate break. Mistakes are heavily punished so stop making mistakes and hold your serve, simple.

Watching two great players hold their serves, trading blows, going hill hill is awesome.

On what percent of the breaks in 8ball on a 9-footer does a player make more than two balls in one of the two sets. My guess, based on having attended numerous pro level 8ball events, would be 1%. Protecting players from the possibly negative consequences by making the game incredibly easy, which is what "open table after the break" does, makes the game boring when world class players are the ones playing.

The most exciting 8ball I've ever watched came during Darren Appleton's World Pool Series about ten years ago. It was "take what you make" and "break from within a few inches of the long rail" and luck had nothing to do with the outcomes. The cream rose to the top and Kaci and Woodward, two of the best 8ball players in the world, won the two events that I attended.

Irving Crane once offered that 8ball was way too easy for the top pros and he was referring to "take what you make" version.

The "open table after the break" makes a lot of sense for leagues players, but it is ridiculous for pros.

 

[sjm]

Watching Robbie's performance vs Chinakhov (x2 speed mode advised ) would make you reconsider. Struggled big time. Okay, only first day in, but still, did not look like his former self.

To be fair, I did not watch. Le's see what he looks like tomorrow. Thanks for your input.

 

[jax_joe]

Following the break, one suit is easier to run and the other is harder (forget for a minute that the players won't always agree which is which).

The two ways we tend to play 8-Ball are
(1) Open table --player never shoots the hard suit
(2) Take-what-you-make --player shoots the hard suit roughly half the time

There is a third way that, IMO, we should be doing at the pro level or any time 8-Ball is too easy (like 700+ players on 7-foot table)

(3) Opponent assigns suit --this way the player at the table after the break shoots the hard suit every time

This is a simple modification that would make 8-Ball more interesting at the pro level.

"Opponent assigns suit" <-- That's an even dumber bastardization for pool than the "3-point rule".

 

[jay helfert]

I saw Ronnie Wiseman make five low balls on the break once….he was hooked on the two low balls…he ran out on high balls.
….why should he be a huge under dog for making an excellent break?

My point exactly. It was far easier to run out the high balls with no low balls in the way. If he had been forced to shoot the low balls he may not have had a way out and been forced to play safe. Now his skill enters the contest. And we have a game! I know from past experience that if my opponent leaves one of his balls on the table and I still have all seven of mine left and it's my turn, I'm the favorite from there.

 

[jay helfert]

Guess I spoke too soon. Sky got sent to the loser's side by a Filipino player named Christian Gariando. Fargo is listed at 704, with a low robustness.

Of course, there are tons of great players in the Philippines not known outside the country. But Gariando has very little presence on the web. Didnt see the match, so who knows what went wrong.

Sky plays another Pinoy next, Jesson Marabi, with a higher Fargo than Gariando.

Once again, Tyler Styer lost an opening match at a big major. This is a recurring trend with him. He tends to get to the second stage, but he sure makes it harder on himself.

His opponent was Nguyen Khanh Hoang. Fargo of 756 with low robustness. Ty is at 790, so maybe not a big upset.

Ty did win his first loser side match.

Big Mosconi implications for Lukas Fracasso Verner. Needs one more win to get to the knockout stage.

There has to be 50-100 sixteen to eighteen year old kids that shoot 750 level in the PI. No joke, I've seen a few of them. They have no Fargo rating yet!

 

[jbart65]

Watching Robbie's performance vs Chinakhov (x2 speed mode advised ) would make you reconsider. Struggled big time. Okay, only first day in, but still, did not look like his former self.

Moritz Neuhausen lost 9-6 in his first match in the Peri Open to a Chinese player who promptly lose 9-0 to Aleksa Pecjl, and was out of the tourney one match later.

I do wonder if players who have been in Vietnam for awhile, or those who went deep in the Peri, will get tired during the Hanoi. In any case, Robbie seldom plays poor twice in a row.

 

[jay helfert]

Take what you make punishes good breaks. Example, make 3 solids, squat the cueball, have no shot on a solid, you lose the game for breaking good. 8ball should always be played open after break and alternate break. Mistakes are heavily punished so stop making mistakes and hold your serve, simple.

Watching two great players hold their serves, trading blows, going hill hill is awesome.

You don't lose the game in the above case. You are forced to actually play the game! Big difference. I guess some people like watching pros clear the table like it's nothing. I don't. I want to see some play between where they are forced to play safeties and smart pool. You know, like a real game of pool. But that's just me.

 

[pt109]

You don't lose the game in the above case. You are forced to actually play the game! Big difference. I guess some people like watching pros clear the table like it's nothing. I don't. I want to see some play between where they are forced to play safeties and smart pool. You know, like a real game of pool. But that's just me.

At a pro level. 8-ball should be elitist…..take those bar rules to a league.

 

[jay helfert]

On what percent of the breaks in 8ball on a 9-footer does a player make more than two balls in one of the two sets. My guess, based on having attended numerous pro level 8ball events, would be 1%. Protecting players from the possibly negative consequences by making the game incredibly easy, which is what "open table after the break" does, makes the game boring when world class players are the ones playing.

The most exciting 8ball I've ever watched came during Darren Appleton's World Pool Series about ten years ago. It was "take what you make" and "break from within a few inches of the long rail" and luck had nothing to do with the outcomes. The cream rose to the top and Kaci and Woodward, two of the best 8ball players in the world, won the two events that I attended.

Irving Crane once offered that 8ball was way too easy for the top pros and he was referring to "take what you make" version.

The "open table after the break" makes a lot of sense for leagues players, but it is ridiculous for pros.

At a pro level. 8-ball should be elitist…..take those bar rules to a league.

Open table makes it a game for amateurs. Take what you make is the way pros play Eight Ball. It was always that way in the old Eight Ball championships and even in the Masters level events of the BCA.

 

[Rocket354]

(2) Take-what-you-make --player shoots the hard suit roughly half the titime

I don't believe this. My experience is the suit with fewer balls down is clearly the easier suit more often.

Rationality says the suit with more balls on the table is more likely to have more options off the break, and more opportunities for clearing clusters and other problem balls.

I'm intrigued by the opponent-chooses idea. I'd like to see it in practice at some point.

 

[skogstokig]

billy ran into an in form duc thien. lots of BNRs and a nice masse trick shot executed to perfection

 

[skogstokig]

Speaking of Thomas Bongers, I'd say he is in better form than Styer recently. Ruslan could also give Tyler a match, but he apparently struggled with table conditions vs Capito at times, and still in search of a decent break shot.

yep, ruslan beat tyler

 

[Flakeandrun]

I don't believe this. My experience is the suit with fewer balls down is clearly the easier suit more often.

Rationality says the suit with more balls on the table is more likely to have more options off the break, and more opportunities for clearing clusters and other problem balls.

I regularly give 3 or 4 from the break/suit selection as a spot. Wouldn't let the same player take them prior to the black though. More balls for me, and less traffic from the off.

So, I have to agree with your comments.

billy ran into an in form duc thien. lots of BNRs and a nice masse trick shot executed to perfection

Quite enjoyed pretending to work while watching that.

Lots of pool to watch at the moment, makes work slightly more tolerable at the desk. Only thing better would be putting a table in my office lol

 

[jbart65]

Evidently Robbie Capito had ball in hand in a hill-hill match vs. Walter Laikre. He touched the CB without the ref or Laikre seeing it, and called a foul on himself. He lost the match.

Capito still got through to the final 64. (EDITED)

Almost all the top players advanced. Only four big names got ousted in the first stage:

Wiktor Zielinski - another disappointing early exit for the young Pole. Lost to Souto.
Tyler Styer - Ditto. Lost 9-5 to Nguyen Khanh Hoang (756 Fargo), and 8-5 to Ruslan Chinakov.
AJ Manas - Lot of hype, but he hasn't gone far in many big tourneys.
Aleksa Pecelj - Seems to have slipped lately. Maybe he's already peaked.

Billy Thorpe continued his fine run of recent form. He did get sent to the loser's side after winning his first two matches, but he took down Pecelj 9-6 to get to the final 64.

Skyer Woodward also got thru to the final 64, but just barely. Not even sure he deserved it.

Won 9-8 over a young and up and coming Vietnamese player. The Vietnamese player scratched on the break when he was on the hill at 8-7. Sky won that game and had a break and run to finish it out.

Yet Woodward missed several fairly easy shots - at least three or four - in the match. Sloppy, lack of concentration, etc. He'll go out in the next round if he keeps that up.

 

[skogstokig]

Evidently Robbie Capito had ball in hand in a hill-hill match vs. Walter Laikre. He touched the CB without the ref or Laikre seeing it, and called a foul on himself. He lost the match.

Capito should still get to the final 64, but who knows. He is the only other truly top-tier player still trying to qualify today.

Almost all the top players advanced. Biggest names to get ousted in the first stage:

Wiktor Zielinski - another disappointing early exit for the young Pole. Lost to Souto.
Tyler Styer - Ditto.
AJ Manas - Lot of hype, but he hasn't gone far in many big tourneys.
Aleksa Pecelj - Seems to have slipped lately. Maybe he's already peaked.

Billy Thorpe continued his fine run of recent form. He did get sent to the loser's side after winning his first two matches, but he took down Pecelj 9-6 to get to the final 64.

Skyer Woodward also got thru to the final 64, but just barely. Not even sure he deserved it.

Won 9-8 over a young and up and coming Vietnamese player. The Vietnamese player scratched on the break when he was on the hill at 8-7. Sky won that game and had a break and run to finish it out.

Yet Woodward missed several fairly easy shots - at least three or four - in the match. Sloppy, lack of concentration, etc. He'll go out in the next round if he keeps that up.

thanks for this summary. glad billy won that match, sad wiktor lost again. and of course glad for the young swede walter.

 

[jbart65]

The race for top spots for Team USA on the Mosconi is getting hot. Sky, Billy and Lukas Fracasso-Verner got to the final 64 at Hanoi. That's worth 1,000 points each.

Styer was knocked out early and will get no points.

Gorst and SVB are way ahead of everyone else for spots 1 and 2. It is unclear if Shane is eligible under WNT rules for missing Hanoi and perhaps the Philippines.

The current standings, unofficially, stand like this for the remaining automatic spot (two if SVB is ineligible).

3) Tyler Styer - 23,350
4 )Skyler Woodward - 21,900
5) Lukas Fracasso-Verner - 20,700
6) Billy Thorpe - - 18,450.

Getting to the final 32 would add 2,000 points instead of 1,000. Getting to the final 16 would add 4,000 points. Getting to the quarters would be worth 7,000 points.

Sky is highly likely to be named captain and is probably already on the team.

 

[Rocket354]

The Capito match was exciting. Walter was up 5-1 at one point. Robbie came back to tie it at 5-5. Then the match was tied every two games after, 6-6, 7-7, 8-8. No shot clock meant the pace of play slowed considerably, unfortunately. I guess shot clocks are too hard to enforce without dedicated refs.

Robbie showed real class.

 

[skogstokig]

The Capito match was exciting. Walter was up 5-1 at one point. Robbie came back to tie it at 5-5. Then the match was tied every two games after, 6-6, 7-7, 8-8. No shot clock meant the pace of play slowed considerably, unfortunately. I guess shot clocks are too hard to enforce without dedicated refs.

Robbie showed real class.

but it wasn't streamed? are you in hanoi? or how did you see it

sounds like robbie is an honest guy.

 

[sjm]

Only match I watched today was Souto vs Zielinski. I saw some positive developments in Souto's shot selection compared to what I saw in 2024. Jonas is maturing as a player.