Balance point and deflection

... if the compensation changes (which I thought everyone knows happens when a backhand english user changes bridge length) then the amount of squirt you end up getting changes as well
[broken record alert]

For a given tip offset, the amount of squirt produced by a shaft is a fixed angle from the cue's direction - changing the cue's direction doesn't change that fixed angle (the "amount of deflection"), only the direction it's pointed.

Sorry to be so insistent, but I think this is an important distinction for learners to understand, whichever way they want to use it.

pj
chgo
 
[broken record alert]

For a given tip offset, the amount of squirt produced by a shaft is a fixed angle from the cue's direction - changing the cue's direction doesn't change that fixed angle (the "amount of deflection"), only the direction it's pointed.

Sorry to be so insistent, but I think this is an important distinction for learners to understand, whichever way they want to use it.

pj
chgo
Same thing here again it seems. I think my wording of "if the compensation changes (which I thought everyone knows happens when a backhand english user changes bridge length) then the amount of squirt you end up getting" comes with the automatic implication of "in relation to/deviation from the intended shot line" and is therefore correct, but it would have been better had I just included the additional wording rather than relying on the implication. Edited post #10 again, double check me and see if I missed anything else that has any ambiguity.
 
First cue I bought was an Adam Rubber Duck. 57" and 14+ maybe, tip; never measured. Lost it in a match and grew to regret that but the point here is that fat tip aligned itself very well with the circumference of the ball. I used a Minnesota Fats stand up stance at the time (a requirement of a weak stroke) It aligned well in my bridge and center ball was easy to find. It really developed my shot accuracy.
 
Thanks for the info, personally I would have assumed that the thicker shaft is more forgiving towards mishits on the cueball?
When you miscue, you usually have hit the cue ball too far out on the edge with the edge of your tip. More than likely without enough chalk.

A 14mm gives you a "tad" more tip egde to grip the cue ball.

I also always kept a nickel curvature on my tip rather than a dime so that it wasn't so rounded.

A fat shaft seems to give a "smoother" ride, too.

Another reason I gravitated to a 14mm was because there was more money to be made playing on bar tables than there was on big tables. Bar tables always used a BIG cue ball back then.
 
First cue I bought was an Adam Rubber Duck. 57" and 14+ maybe, tip; never measured. Lost it in a match and grew to regret that but the point here is that fat tip aligned itself very well with the circumference of the ball. I used a Minnesota Fats stand up stance at the time (a requirement of a weak stroke) It aligned well in my bridge and center ball was easy to find. It really developed my shot accuracy.
Large diameter shafts are more forgiving of stroke errors and can help with that.
 
Large diameter shafts are more forgiving of stroke errors and can help with that.
Intuitively reasoned the fat tip covered such a (seemingly) big area that a couple millimeters give or take wouldn't matter. Never checked that or gave it much thought. I was able to bang out threes on the fly though. All dead outs. This is with the ball spinning like a top on straight ins too. :ROFLMAO:
 
Large diameter shafts are more forgiving of stroke errors and can help with that.
Intuitively reasoned the fat tip covered such a (seemingly) big area that a couple millimeters give or take wouldn't matter.
Easy to see how it seems true (lots of players believe it), but larger doesn’t actually help. Flatter can be a tiny bit more forgiving...

pj
chgo
 
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At any pivot point can you get absolute '0' deflection?
No. Pivoting left or right from your bridge at the pivot point is an aiming adjustment which counteracts the deflection of your shaft. For instance, if you pivot the tip to the right, you are aiming more to the right (v. if you parallel shift the whole cue to the right), and because the cue ball will deflect to the left, aiming more to the right will counteract the deflection. The pivot point is where the aiming adjustment is exactly equal to the net deflection (squirt - swerve). I'm not quite up to speed on the particulars of the pivot point, but the harder you hit the cue ball, the less swerve there is, which results in more net deflection, which means the pivot point must change based on the speed of your shot.**


And if you do, what happens when you increase your pivot point?
If you mean, what happens when you increase your bridge length, the answer is: the aiming adjustment is less for the same tip position on the cue ball, i.e. the angle into the cue ball is smaller, which means the aiming adjustment is not enough to compensate for all of the net deflection. As your bridge length gets shorter, in order to pivot your cue to the desired tip position, you have to move the butt of the cue more.

And by the way, the pivot point concept does not take into account how the spin on the cue ball will throw the object ball, so even if you have the pivot point correct for a given shot, you still have to adjust your aim for how the spin on the cue ball will throw the object ball.


** Dr. Dave actually defines the pivot point relative to one particular shot: a short, fast shot where swerve is 0. Are all your shots short and fast? Probably not, so don't think that once you've found the pivot point for a short, fast shot, that the same bridge length is going to offset the deflection for other shots. Think...break shot. While not short, a break shot is fast. Find the pivot point for your break speed and if possible use that bridge length on break shots.
 
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The pivot point is where the aiming adjustment is exactly equal to the net deflection (squirt - swerve).
It's also the point on your shaft/cue that's directly over the centerball aim line when angled (pivoted around that point) correctly for the shot's squirt. The distance from the tip to the pivot point is the cue's pivot length. The amount of squirt produced (ignoring swerve) is equal to the amount of tip offset on the CB for each pivot length of CB travel - so 1/2" of side spin with a 12" pivot length produces 1/2" of squirt per 12" of travel, etc.

pj
chgo
 
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When you miscue, you usually have hit the cue ball too far out on the edge with the edge of your tip. More than likely without enough chalk.

A 14mm gives you a "tad" more tip egde to grip the cue ball.

I also always kept a nickel curvature on my tip rather than a dime so that it wasn't so rounded.

A fat shaft seems to give a "smoother" ride, too.

Another reason I gravitated to a 14mm was because there was more money to be made playing on bar tables than there was on big tables. Bar tables always used a BIG cue ball back then.
I was referring more to stroke errors as Mensabum has pointed out.
 
ive always played with a 13 or even 14. and cant remember deflection being more than a slight adjustment on your aim and speed.

yet on here it seems everyone agonizes over it. so it must be people missing shots and thinking it was deflection that caused their misses.

years back no one even thought about it and just adjusted your aim and stroke for the amount of english you put on the shot.
 
Problem with larger diameter wood shafts is the increase in mass. They squirt like hell. Sure you can get used to it but why? Yrs ago i had Joss with 14's(no clue why i ordered them) and after about a month i sent 'em back to be turned down. They were ok on the barbox but on a 9ft not so much.
 
Intuitively reasoned the fat tip covered such a (seemingly) big area that a couple millimeters give or take wouldn't matter. Never checked that or gave it much thought. I was able to bang out threes on the fly though. All dead outs. This is with the ball spinning like a top on straight ins too. :ROFLMAO:
Sounds like you've got a natural dip in your forward stroke. That's why you get the spin on straight ins. You're not hitting straight in the CB. Just a guess, but try decelerating a bit on the forward stroke. Go slower and concentrate on keeping that pendulum as straight as you possibly can. Takes work, but it can be done.
Might feel odd for a bit, but small price to pay for results.
 
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