What is pocket speed?

pdcue said:
The idea of having a different meaning for the same term, based on what game you are playing is - IMHO - inappropriate.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I totally agree. Words mean what they mean. Period. There should be no discussion on this.

For example:

  • "ball-in-hand" should always mean anywhere on the table, especially if you are playing one pocket.
  • And the term "money ball" should always mean the 9 ball. Even when you are playing 8 ball or golf.
  • And an "open table" should always mean you have a choice of solids or stripes and not an easy run out in 9-ball. Get with the program.
  • Also, the "spot" should always mean the foot spot, even in snooker - or, again, golf. Just forget the part where each ball has its own home.
  • And a "spot shot" should always be where there is a ball on the foot spot. Not the opening shot in 3 cushion. Silly game anyway.
  • Don't forget that "billiard" should always mean pocketing the second ball contacted - even where you are playing carom, where there are no pockets.
  • Similarly, a 5-rail shot always means pocketing the ball after 5 rails, again, even on a carom table, where there are no pockets.
  • Oh, "foot" should always mean the bottom of the table, despite that it is the top of the table in English Billiards. Just ignore the Brits.
  • Don't overlook that "break ball" always means the head ball in the rack and NOT the last ball on the table in straight pool. That last ball isn't important.
  • Likewise, you should always have ball-in hand on a "break shot" even in straight pool. It's just easiler.
  • Even more importantly, a "3-foul" is loss of game. Period. If you sissies need that retarded 15 point thing in straight pool, well get over it. It's gone.
  • What about a "perfect game"? Well, that should always mean 150 points in straight pool and not 147 in snooker. We don't like snooker.
  • Because we don't like snooker it's also clear that a "legal object ball" always means the next numbered ball you can shoot at, even though the majority of the balls in snooker have no numbers.
  • The "black ball" is always the 8. Snooker sucks.
  • The "white ball" is always the cue ball everyone shoots with. Even in 3-cushion.
  • Your "opponent's pocket" is always the opposite corner pocket in one-hole, and no other pocket. We don't play golf, we don't like golf.
  • The "red" is always one of the 3 carom balls. It is not one of the snooker balls. We DON'T LIKE SNOOKER.
  • In fact, we hate snooker so much, "snooker" is not even a game. It's behing hooked behind a ball. Stupid snooker.

So as you can all see. There is NO REASON to have different definitions for ANYTHING based on the game you play. What is this, the dark ages.

Geesh.

-td (sarcasm included free of charge)
 
td873 said:
Yeah, I totally agree. Words mean what they mean. Period. There should be no discussion on this.

For example:

  • "ball-in-hand" should always mean anywhere on the table, especially if you are playing one pocket.
  • And the term "money ball" should always mean the 9 ball. Even when you are playing 8 ball or golf.
  • And an "open table" should always mean you have a choice of solids or stripes and not an easy run out in 9-ball. Get with the program.
  • Also, the "spot" should always mean the foot spot, even in snooker - or, again, golf. Just forget the part where each ball has its own home.
  • And a "spot shot" should always be where there is a ball on the foot spot. Not the opening shot in 3 cushion. Silly game anyway.
  • Don't forget that "billiard" should always mean pocketing the second ball contacted - even where you are playing carom, where there are no pockets.
  • Similarly, a 5-rail shot always means pocketing the ball after 5 rails, again, even on a carom table, where there are no pockets.
  • Oh, "foot" should always mean the bottom of the table, despite that it is the top of the table in English Billiards. Just ignore the Brits.
  • Don't overlook that "break ball" always means the head ball in the rack and NOT the last ball on the table in straight pool. That last ball isn't important.
  • Likewise, you should always have ball-in hand on a "break shot" even in straight pool. It's just easiler.
  • Even more importantly, a "3-foul" is loss of game. Period. If you sissies need that retarded 15 point thing in straight pool, well get over it. It's gone.
  • What about a "perfect game"? Well, that should always mean 150 points in straight pool and not 147 in snooker. We don't like snooker.
  • Because we don't like snooker it's also clear that a "legal object ball" always means the next numbered ball you can shoot at, even though the majority of the balls in snooker have no numbers.
  • The "black ball" is always the 8. Snooker sucks.
  • The "white ball" is always the cue ball everyone shoots with. Even in 3-cushion.
  • Your "opponent's pocket" is always the opposite corner pocket in one-hole, and no other pocket. We don't play golf, we don't like golf.
  • The "red" is always one of the 3 carom balls. It is not one of the snooker balls. We DON'T LIKE SNOOKER.
  • In fact, we hate snooker so much, "snooker" is not even a game. It's behing hooked behind a ball. Stupid snooker.

So as you can all see. There is NO REASON to have different definitions for ANYTHING based on the game you play. What is this, the dark ages.

Geesh.

-td (sarcasm included free of charge)
Click to expand...

Perfect example of my thoughts about concepts.

How many things can free throw mean in basketball?
How about foul ball in Baseball?

BTW - we always called the first shot in 3C the 'break shot'
tho that seems odd, since you aren't 'breaking the rack' as in pool.

Spot shot is new to me for 3C- tho it does seem to fit better.
Do you still shoot the spot shot when balls are frozen?

Dale
 
I always thought pocket speed was the speed you hit a ball, especially when it will have to hit the sides of the jaw, to make it go in. I never knew about the making it hang deal, but i don't play one pocket at all....
 
Lol

They say 'the devil is in the details', and indeed he is, and living in you!!

The Kiss method = a medium soft shot = pocket speed.
 
pdcue said:
Perfect example of my thoughts about concepts.
Click to expand...
1) I'm not following the idea that distinct definitions are conceptual.

2) My point was that there is inherent ambiguity in various words/phrases used across the many games of the pool. The examples I listed in jest were to illustrate the counter to the proposition that it is not inappropriate for words to have different meanings in different games. As it turns out - words can (and do) have different meanings. IMO, it is not a matter of concepts, rather it is a fact directly dependent on the game you are playing. Perhaps a better way to describe this is the context of the phrase. Again, I'm not following how any of this relates to the concept of/about a definition.

Just thought I'd clear up any miscommunication on my part.

-td
[edited for clarity]
 
Last edited:
Exactly, in context....

ShootingArts said:
Dale,

Of course I know the most common usage of "spot shot" but I have heard it used to describe all of the other situations also.

As for "pocket speed," "pocket speed" or "perfect pocket speed" is often used by the commentators to describe the speed of a shot in rotation games. Either they are saying that the player is intentionally dumping by trying to hang the ball in the pocket for the other player or they are referring to the speed best suited for making the ball. I haven't heard of the commentators being called out by anyone for using the term so I assume them to mean the player was trying his best to make the ball.

It isn't to the player's advantage to hang up a ball near a pocket in most games so it seems reasonable to go with the most common usage most of the time although if someone said a ball that was hung deep in the jaws playing One Pocket was shot at pocket speed I wouldn't feel any need to disagree. In context the person was right.

Hu
Click to expand...


I've referred to it for a couple of different things in different situations, I believe that it is only relative to the context in which it is used, like most linguistics...

For instance, when I've needed to hit an OB softly to get shape and making the ball with PERFECT shape is difficult when hit at the most likely speed to make the ball, I've used the term pocket speed to refer to the minimum velocity necessary to make the ball so that I could get better shape...

On the converse when I've needed have a better chance of potting, say the nineball in nineball, or the ten ball in ten ball, et al, I have referred to the term pocket speed as the speed at which it has the best chance of falling, even if it is not struck exactly perfect....

So, I think that it is best defined by the context in which it is used, and can accurately mean many things...
 
It's all my fault!

I just discovered part of the problem with this argument over the definition of "pocket speed". For my website OnePocket.org I wrote a "Glossary of One Pocket Terms" (from scratch, by the way; I did not lift it from anywhere else). My One pocket glossary can be found here:
http://onepocket.org/one_pocket_glossary.htm

However it was definitely written specifically for One Pocket, and never meant to be a general glossary of pool terms. In fact, it states in the introduction:
"Besides standard pool terminology, the rich strategy of One Pocket has spawned -- or borrowed -- quite a few terms that are specific to the One Pocket game. Since most players who are taking up One Pocket already are familiar with pool's general terms, and since other pool resources cover them as well, most generic pool terms will be skipped here."
Click to expand...

Here is the definition as I wrote it (for One Pocket):
Pocket speed -- Striking a shot with just enough speed for the object ball to reach the pocket, but ideally not so hard that a miss would cause sufficient rebound to leave your opponent a return bank.
Click to expand...
You can see right away that definition is geared to One Pocket, relating to the important safety and strategy principles relatively unique to the game.

The problem arises because it turns out that a number of other websites have either grossly plaigerized my glossary, or just lifted it word for word -- but without the intro at the top that associates it with One Pocket. Hence, if you google the definition of "Pocket Speed" it shows up in several generic pool glossaries, without my One Pocket specific context, and without any credit, of course -- ain't the internet wonderful :)

Anybody know a decent copyright lawyer?
 
Last edited:
1pocket said:
I just discovered part of the problem with this argument over the definition of "pocket speed". For my website OnePocket.org I wrote a "Glossary of One Pocket Terms" (from scratch, by the way; I did not lift it from anywhere else). My One pocket glossary can be found here:
http://onepocket.org/one_pocket_glossary.htm

However it was definitely written specifically for One Pocket, and never meant to be a general glossary of pool terms. In fact, it states in the introduction:

Here is the definition as I wrote it (for One Pocket):
You can see right away that definition is geared to One Pocket, relating to the important safety and strategy principles relatively unique to the game.

The problem arises because it turns out that a number of other websites have either grossly plaigerized my glossary, or just lifted it word for word -- but without the intro at the top that associates it with One Pocket. Hence, if you google the definition of "Pocket Speed" it shows up in several generic pool glossaries, without my One Pocket specific context, and without any credit, of course -- ain't the internet wonderful :)

Anybody know a decent copyright lawyer?
Click to expand...

So, I guess it's the two of us against the world.

Thanks again for developing the great site.

Dale<still speeding towards the ONE pocket>
 
dabarbr said:
The other day I and and a friend of mine had a discussion on what pocket speed means. I would like opinions.
It seems to me that there is more than one defination as to what pocket speed is. Many believe that it means to roll the ball so that it it just gets to the pocket.

I believe that pocket speed means to deliver the hit so that the object ball has the best opportunity to get into the hole.

If that being the case then hitting the object ball with the speed to just get to the hole may have problems. The main problem would be that you are at the mercy of the table, meaning that at that speed the table would take it away from you if it is not truly level, especially if the ball has to travel a fair distance. Also if it encounters a bit of debri on it's path to the pocket it may cause the ball to go off course.

My idea of pocket speed would be to hit the object ball with the speed that it would be able to defeat any drift or unforseen obstacles between it and the pocket ( lint. pieces of chalk, etc.) and with not so much power that if it rubs the rail or hits the points at the pocket it will still go in.
If thats the case then that means that pocket speed will vary depending as to where the object ball lies. Balls closer to the rail will require a softer hit because the mouth of the pocket is smaller. Balls more toward the middle can have a firmer hit.

Of course many times it is necessary to hit with much more than pocket speed because of the position that is required for the next ball. For this reason we would like to position to locations that we can utilize pocket speed for position on the next ball.
If you were on game ball and no position is needed I believe you would want to deliver the shot with enough force to defeat any table roll and not so much force that if you rub rails it would still go in.
My main point is that pocket speed is not to have the ball just barly get to the pocket.

Do you disagree or agree with my opinion. I would like to hear other suggestions to this or any other ideas you might have.
Click to expand...
Pocket Speed: The ideal speed range—neither too fast nor too slow—for successfully pocketing balls.
 
Given all the reasonable-sounding alternatives, there’s apparently no “official” meaning. Sounds like a question to ask your opponent (like asking whether they breathe in or out during their shot stroke).

Maybe we need a Pool Dictionary.

pj
chgo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top