SJM at 2025 Mosconi Cup: Way too Late Thoughts

Cord said:
This again. :rolleyes:

Look, if you can talk him into playing, then go for it. It seems reasonably clear, though, that he isn't interested in playing MR's World Nineball Tour.
Click to expand...
No, I'm just saying he's smart, he Knows being a touring pro is not an easy life....period, and he's not 20 yr old anymore.
 
sjm said:
Amen to that. You can't grow the talent pool overnight, so the focus must be on bringing the most promising players to the highest possible level, and it is in this regard that, I feel, America has failed for many years now.
Click to expand...
You seem to be hinting that like the more socialist countries, government funding and training should be involved. I'm strongly opposed to that...
 
pwd72s said:
You seem to be hinting that like the more socialist countries, government funding and training should be involved. I'm strongly opposed to that...
Click to expand...
Not hinting that at all. Government is not the source of funding for the national pool federations.

Most of that money originates at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) level, which has a solidarity budget of billions. For example, the United States National Olympic committee gets $650,000,000 from the IOC per four-year Olympic cycle. The National Olympic Committees of lesser countries like Poland, of course, get less. It is easily forgotten that both the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) and its member the World Pool Association (WPA) exist under the IOC umbrella.

Each National Olympic committee determines how the money received from the IOC is allocated across the various IOC-recognized sports. Sports already enjoying Olympic inclusion, invariably, get some of that money.

Other sports, and pool is one of them, have earned World Games inclusion but not Olympic inclusion. Some of the National Olympic committees of the world will fund sports in this category, as such sports may gain Olympic inclusion in the future. Poland is one such country. The United States is not.

So, no, government and political philosophy and ideology are not relevant here.
 
Last edited:
sjm said:
Members of the winning team get $40,000 each, members of the losing team get $20,000 each.
Click to expand...
How are all the travel arrangements in expenses covered? I was doing some reading and it seems like when they play overseas with a few tricks they might be able to return with the money tax-free as opposed to playing in the us.
 
One of the highlights of my trip to London for Mosconi this year was sitting in a subway car and having Stu just walk on and stand right next to me for a couple of stops.
 
middleofnowhere said:
How are all the travel arrangements in expenses covered? I was doing some reading and it seems like when they play overseas with a few tricks they might be able to return with the money tax-free as opposed to playing in the us.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I am not knowledgeable about this.
 
KAP1976 said:
One of the highlights of my trip to London for Mosconi this year was sitting in a subway car and having Stu just walk on and stand right next to me for a couple of stops.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and our improbable chance meeting on the Underground happened nowhere near Alexandra Palace. Go figure.
 
sjm said:
Not hinting that at all. Government is not the source of funding for the national pool federations.

Most of that money originates at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) level, which has a solidarity budget of billions. For example, the United States National Olympic committee gets $650,000,000 from the IOC per four-year Olympic cycle. The National Olympic Committees of lesser countries like Poland, of course, get less. It is easily forgotten that both the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS) and its member the World Pool Association (WPA) exist under the IOC umbrella.

Each National Olympic committee determines how the money received from the IOC is allocated across the various IOC-recognized sports. Sports already enjoying Olympic inclusion, invariably, get some of that money.

Other sports, and pool is one of them, have earned World Games inclusion but not Olympic inclusion. Some of the National Olympic committees of the world will fund sports in this category, as such sports may gain Olympic inclusion in the future. Poland is one such country. The United States is not.

So, no, government and political philosophy and ideology are not relevant here.
Click to expand...

Just to "yes and..."

The USOPC receives a significant portion of U.S. broadcast revenue from the multi-billion dollar deal with the IOC and NBCUniversal to air the Olympics in the U.S. It also gets some corporate sponsorships with Nike, Coca-Cola, Visa, and others for marketing rights. It raises money from individuals, including one-time and recurring donors, as well as major gifts from wealthy patrons and foundations. The USOPC licenses the Team USA brand and selling Olympic-branded merchandise. And the USOPC and its affiliated foundations host gala events, auctions, and donor summits to raise funds directly. And I'm sure specific sports national governing bodies are prominent enough to do their own fundraising if their sport is prestigious enough (gymnastics).

The obvious issue for billiards is that the BCA doesn't receive any of that financial support from the USOPC. Of course pool isn't in the Olympics, just the World Games. Which doesn't preclude it from getting some USOPC support like bowling does. I'm sure if pool got in the Olympics it would go a long way to get access to USOPC funding. Maybe even participation in the Pan American Games would help its case. But I've heard the primary sticking point is that the USOPC only wants to work with a single national governing body (NGB) for a sport and the main deal breaker is that the BCA is not a unified North American governing body for pocket billiards, snooker and carom (it's just pool). Kind of like how the IOC only wants to deal with the WCBS, not the WPA. USOPC wants to deal with something that doesn't exist, not the BCA.

Your point is valid that any debates between socialism and capitalism aren't relevant. But I thought I'd contribute what appears to be the primary deal breaker for supporting our athletes under that umbrella. It's very hard to see how American pool talent develops outside the model of pool hobbyists supported by family at a very young age become motivated to "go pro one day" and find success commercially through events and sponsors. It's hard to see how we develop a structure that systematically develops talent without a major breakthrough on the commercial side of pool.
 
MattPoland said:
Just to "yes and..."

The USOPC receives a significant portion of U.S. broadcast revenue from the multi-billion dollar deal with the IOC and NBCUniversal to air the Olympics in the U.S. It also gets some corporate sponsorships with Nike, Coca-Cola, Visa, and others for marketing rights. It raises money from individuals, including one-time and recurring donors, as well as major gifts from wealthy patrons and foundations. The USOPC licenses the Team USA brand and selling Olympic-branded merchandise. And the USOPC and its affiliated foundations host gala events, auctions, and donor summits to raise funds directly. And I'm sure specific sports national governing bodies are prominent enough to do their own fundraising if their sport is prestigious enough (gymnastics).

The obvious issue for billiards is that the BCA doesn't receive any of that financial support from the USOPC. Of course pool isn't in the Olympics, just the World Games. Which doesn't preclude it from getting some USOPC support like bowling does. I'm sure if pool got in the Olympics it would go a long way to get access to USOPC funding. Maybe even participation in the Pan American Games would help its case. But I've heard the primary sticking point is that the USOPC only wants to work with a single national governing body (NGB) for a sport and the main deal breaker is that the BCA is not a unified North American governing body for pocket billiards, snooker and carom (it's just pool). Kind of like how the IOC only wants to deal with the WCBS, not the WPA. USOPC wants to deal with something that doesn't exist, not the BCA.

Your point is valid that any debates between socialism and capitalism aren't relevant. But I thought I'd contribute what appears to be the primary deal breaker for supporting our athletes under that umbrella. It's very hard to see how American pool talent develops outside the model of pool hobbyists supported by family at a very young age become motivated to "go pro one day" and find success commercially through events and sponsors. It's hard to see how we develop a structure that systematically develops talent without a major breakthrough on the commercial side of pool.
Click to expand...

just skip school and play pool all day, like jaybee sucal and the other pinoy kids🤘
 
Cord said:
This again. :rolleyes:

Look, if you can talk him into playing, then go for it. It seems reasonably clear, though, that he isn't interested in playing MR's World Nineball Tour.
Click to expand...
He's smart, letting em come to him.
I know he's at least 40 and set in his ways, not the norm for a top flight player.
When you live in IL, it's expensive. There are two police officers in Chicago that play great/good. One of em tho is now retired.
 
sjm said:
Members of the winning team get $40,000 each, members of the losing team get $20,000 each.
Click to expand...
Maybe you'd know the answer to this. I heard that the players all got extra money from their sponsors for making the team. I'm sure every sponsor is different, but have you heard this also?
 
Island Drive said:
He's smart, letting em come to him.
I know he's at least 40 and set in his ways, not the norm for a top flight player.
When you live in IL, it's expensive. There are two police officers in Chicago that play great/good. One of em tho is now retired.
Click to expand...

pushing 40 i would say. i think they said 37 in ultimate pool last year
 
Only reason I thought so is this. Jr Nationals/Magoos he was 14 then I was told. So yeah that would make my time there 2021 & 2022. McMinn won it back/back same room in the 18 and over division. Yep I was off a couple yrs too much, sure enjoyed seeing a kid play like an adult 9 ball player. If I handicapped him with my perspective of seeing him play twice, I'd say he shot around 675 Fargo/ at 14-15 yr old.
 
easy-e said:
Maybe you'd know the answer to this. I heard that the players all got extra money from their sponsors for making the team. I'm sure every sponsor is different, but have you heard this also?
Click to expand...
No, but it could well be true.
 
AtLarge said:
Bergman is only 38 now. Born in 1987.
Click to expand...
Hard to figure any of it. The Earl choice of a few years ago showed that playing in most Matchroom events is not a prerequisite for Mosconi inclusion. In 2024, however, Filler was excluded for missing one WNT major.

Hence, the inclusion of Justin Bergman, who does not play the WNT Tour, is not something that can be ruled out.

Wonder how well Justin plays these days.
 
i think he would thrive with the current break rules, and with the moving. his positional play and shotmaking is still top notch in the UP events. but it's a moot point since he won't play
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top