Seems like you might get the same result by altering where you contact the first rail. I'm sure that I don't know why, but surely there must be a reason.
Why is running English always (or at least usually) used for multi rail kicks?
- Thread starter Saturated Fats
- Start date
I believe it's because the cb will pick up running spin each time it hits a cusion (if they are hit sequentially). So if it starts with it, the extra it picks up won't substantially change the angles. But if no spin or opposite spin is used from the tip, the angles will change substantially when it hits the subsequent rails.
Try the corner-five system corner to corner on three different ages of cloth. See how quickly you can make it work with various combinations of left, center, right and follow, draw, stun. I think that experiment is going to be far more convincing than any post here.
In that regard, ball speed. Ball being self propelled moves more stably and predictably. Dead ball, everything is on the strike.
Oikawa
Well-known member
On top of this, there's also the self-correcting nature of the angles. With running side, the directional change (relative to no side) from first rail -> second rail is effectively the opposite of second rail -> third rail. This can be generalized past the first two rails such that any time you hit two adjancent rails (long->short or short->long), the effect is the same, but two opposites (long->long or short->short) doesn't work.
For most angles/powers the angles don't cancel eachother out perfectly, but the general trend still applies and makes it easier to judge. As a cherry on top, you'll also find out that its less sensitive to speed, due to the same aforementioned canceling out effect. I can explain it in more detail mathematically, but if you try it out on the table you'll get the same idea quite fast.
This can all be generalized to the idea of minimizing the margin of error in shot outcomes between different shot speeds/angles/tip positions. With the same concept, for 1-rail kicks you will find that top spin (or sometimes stun) is typically the most consistent.
A simple experiment to try: Set up some 1-rail or 2-rail kick shot, choose a spin to try, mark the CB/OB/aim and shoot it twice into the same aim spot but with soft vs. hard speed. Compare the difference in cue ball angles off the rails. Now try with a different spin, again shooting both soft and hard. You will quickly see which spins are more/less sensitive to speed for all kinds of shots this way.
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learn to use the rails with no english first as that is the preferred route if available. as it is exact.
adding english changes the route if you are even a little bit off on what you put.
and rails pick up and lose english depending on things, you need to learn.
adding english changes the route if you are even a little bit off on what you put.
and rails pick up and lose english depending on things, you need to learn.
Most multiple rail kicks require some sort of side spin to be exact. Other 1 rail kicks a player might be able to get away with using no spin if there are no blockers in the way of the angle in / angle out.
What if a player is a little bit off off trying to use no spin? The route is going to change.
Better off learning & mastering the usage of what is proper to get the cue ball to go where needed and intended.
When the cue ball hits a rail without running english, it loses some of its speed to friction with the rail. The friction starts the cue ball spinning - yes, in the direction of running english - and the ball doesn't follow the perfect reflective angle coming off the rail. If you put running english on the ball before it hits the rail, the cue ball keeps that speed and moves more easily and naturally along the desired angle.
They're different shots is all. The closer to perpendicular the entries, the greater the difference between run and none.
For instance, a skinny LSL (end of the table) can be affected on either long rail and can be easily manipulated to produce varied results off the 3rd rail.
For instance, a skinny LSL (end of the table) can be affected on either long rail and can be easily manipulated to produce varied results off the 3rd rail.
Just try predicting the outcome of some two, three, four, five rail kicks with inside and you will have your answer, lol.
Lou Figueroa
Here’s what you wrote
“Learn to use the rails with no english first as that is the preferred route if available.”
Just how on earth is what you are advocating correct in any way? Why would anyone want to learn how to play a three rail kick shot without english when that is 100% wrong? Then they have to go back and relearn how to hit it with the proper english either going to the left or the right.
I realize you think you are some sort of “Great One” by the way you elevate and exalt yourself in almost every post you make and even by your username Maha.
Sometimes it’s better to shut your mouth and open your ears.
My reading comprehension is just fine you condescending &#%!@?!!
We all understand about the gearing effect when one ball makes contact with another ball at grazing incidence.
The same effect happens when a ball hits a rail. Running English is simply the gearing effect applied to rails.
If the ball has outside english when it hits a rail, it looses significant energy, and reflects at greater angle than incident.
If the ball has no sidespin, the rail will impart some on first contact and the ball will slow down.
If the ball has too much sidespin, the ball accelerates off the rail (and looses some side spin because of the acceleration).
If the ball has just the right amount of side spin, the ball reflects <I will just use the term> "well" not accelerating, or decelerating and picking up spin where angle of incidence = angle of reflectance.
You can aim the shot anyway your targeting engine has decided works for you.
I can use little more or little less sidespin* to move CB around interfering balls and make 3,4,5 rail shots with interference on the table.
(*)Altering point of contact (i.e., aim) to compensate for the different possible paths.}
The same effect happens when a ball hits a rail. Running English is simply the gearing effect applied to rails.
If the ball has outside english when it hits a rail, it looses significant energy, and reflects at greater angle than incident.
If the ball has no sidespin, the rail will impart some on first contact and the ball will slow down.
If the ball has too much sidespin, the ball accelerates off the rail (and looses some side spin because of the acceleration).
If the ball has just the right amount of side spin, the ball reflects <I will just use the term> "well" not accelerating, or decelerating and picking up spin where angle of incidence = angle of reflectance.
You can aim the shot anyway your targeting engine has decided works for you.
I can use little more or little less sidespin* to move CB around interfering balls and make 3,4,5 rail shots with interference on the table.
(*)Altering point of contact (i.e., aim) to compensate for the different possible paths.}
There are of course several reasons.
Using reverse slows the cueball down after the first contact. Harder to maintain speed for multi rail kicks.
The cueball picks up running english from the rails anyway.
Angles are more predictable (the most important reason). If you play a lot with reverse, you'll realize that the cueball can have wildly different reactions with minute changes of angle. This is IMO especially true on the second rail on a typical kick shot.
That was my first warm up shot on a new to me table. The rails, cloth and weather are variables that makes for calibration adjustment.
1)why would the cue ball lose energy because of outside english?
2) are you referring to the cue ball going in has the same spin that it would pick up if it went into the rail with no spin?
Outside english can be either running or reverse when it gets to a cushion.