Tony/Skyler trivia question

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Put this on facebook; let's see where the right answer shows up first.

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Pure trivia question from the FargoRate database

There are 10 recorded matches between Tony Chohan and Skyler Woodward (7 one-pocket, 3 rotation).

Question: How many of these did Tony win?

Bonus: If Tony had any wins, how many were one-pocket vs rotation?

Curious to see the guesses.
 
Put this on facebook; let's see where the right answer shows up first.

****
Pure trivia question from the FargoRate database

There are 10 recorded matches between Tony Chohan and Skyler Woodward (7 one-pocket, 3 rotation).

Question: How many of these did Tony win?

Bonus: If Tony had any wins, how many were one-pocket vs rotation?

Curious to see the guesses.
Really tricky because of 1-pocket, if rotation only, Sky should won 80% of time.
My guess is that 50-50: Tony won 5 one pocket, Sky won 2 one pocket and 3 rotation 🤣
 
Put this on facebook; let's see where the right answer shows up first.

****
Pure trivia question from the FargoRate database

There are 10 recorded matches between Tony Chohan and Skyler Woodward (7 one-pocket, 3 rotation).

Question: How many of these did Tony win?

Bonus: If Tony had any wins, how many were one-pocket vs rotation?

Curious to see the guesses.
I'll guess that they are roughly split on the one pocket with Skyler being slightly ahead. Maybe 4-3. And I bet that Tony has won all 3 rotation matches.
 
Sky 6-4. Sky 7-3 possibly.
Sky 2-1 in 3 rotation matches. 4-3 in 7 one pocket matches.

Guess from a non math guy. I did poke around the app using their current FargoRate. ( no info on any specific match, I don’t know the actual number)
 
Put this on facebook; let's see where the right answer shows up first.

****
Pure trivia question from the FargoRate database

There are 10 recorded matches between Tony Chohan and Skyler Woodward (7 one-pocket, 3 rotation).

Question: How many of these did Tony win?

Bonus: If Tony had any wins, how many were one-pocket vs rotation?

Curious to see the guesses.
What do we win?

Bonus: when will 7ft Fargo be separated from 9ft Fargo?

Extra Bonus: too much money being made from leagues to ever change?
 
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Bonus: when will 7ft Fargo be separated from 9ft Fargo?

Extra Bonus: too much money being made from leagues to ever change?
Your attempt to assign motivation here makes the same mistake that shows up in many responses (both here and on Facebook) to the original question.

In the Tony/Sky case, the fact that we’re asking the question is itself evidence. If the data were typical or aligned with baseline expectations, there would be no question. Answering as if it were asked at random ignores that conditioning. (Some of you—like sixpack and skogstokig—are getting this.)

The same applies to FargoRate’s choices. The fact that we don’t split 7-ft and 9-ft ratings is itself evidence. If our goal were, as you suggest, short-term engagement or revenue, splitting them would be the obvious, economically superior move. We would get far more engagement by giving people what they think they want. The fact that we don’t do that is important evidence of something.

In both cases, the error is the same: ignoring the selection mechanism that produced the question and the policy, and treating highly informative behavior as if it carried no information at all.
 
Put this on facebook; let's see where the right answer shows up first.

****
Pure trivia question from the FargoRate database

There are 10 recorded matches between Tony Chohan and Skyler Woodward (7 one-pocket, 3 rotation).

Question: How many of these did Tony win?

Bonus: If Tony had any wins, how many were one-pocket vs rotation?

Curious to see the guesses.
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The same applies to FargoRate’s choices. The fact that we don’t split 7-ft and 9-ft ratings is itself evidence. If our goal were, as you suggest, short-term engagement or revenue, splitting them would be the obvious, economically superior move. We would get far more engagement by giving people what they think they want.

don't think barbox players would feel belittled or depreciated if they were in a separate group? if so, wouldn't that be giving them what they don't want rather
 
Forget about 7’ vs 9’ vs one hole vs 9 ball, etc. it’s balls and a stick as Eddie said.

What would be nice, imo, would be a filtering system to see how the player performed when the entry fee varied.
 
Fargo means nothing to me, and I tire of hearing/reading the very word. A handicap is something two players ought to work out between themselves.
 
What do we win?

Bonus: when will 7ft Fargo be separated from 9ft Fargo?

Extra Bonus: too much money being made from leagues to ever change?

I used to believe that bar table "specialists" would suffer against a similar Fargo Rated player on a 9' table. I see myself as a bar table specialist because most of my pool tournament and league competition has been on bar tables. And at the time had never really played 1-pocket other than a few practice games with some friends.

I read an interesting debate on here and Facebook with @mikepage about bar table vs big table Fargo Ratings and decided to approach it with an open mind. I practiced for a few days on a 9' table and then entered a 9 ball tournament and a one pocket tournament. I had never seriously played one pocket at that time but I have watched and followed the game a little. To prepare I read Tom Wirths "One Pocket: A Game of controlled aggression" and spent a few hours on the table setting up scenarios.

To my complete surprise I managed to win against the same players that I would have beaten on a bar table and lost to players that I probably would have lost to on the bar table. 9 ball and 1-pocket. I gambled a little bit at 1-pocket and confirmed this. I was surprisingly competitive with players around my own FR (~600) even though they played a lot more 1-pocket.

I think during the debate Mike made a post to the effect that bar table players lack confidence on a 9' table and that affects their play but once they get comfortable they will start playing to their FR. And it doesn't take as long to get comfortable as you might think. That held true for me.

The other thing that I learned is that ball control and pocketing skills have a larger effect on the outcome of the game relative to strategy than I thought, even in 1-pocket. There are nuances in strategy that take time to master, but until you get to a fairly decent level they don't come into play as much as ball control and pocketing. Errors, especially.

Also, I've played Tony 9b on a super tight 9' table and I know how he plays. Most players, even pros, underestimate his rotation game.
 
So in formulating my guess I thought about race length. Mike Page - Did difference in race length between one pocket matches and rotation matches seem to play a role in the results in this 10 match sample?
 
I used to believe that bar table "specialists" would suffer against a similar Fargo Rated player on a 9' table. I see myself as a bar table specialist because most of my pool tournament and league competition has been on bar tables. And at the time had never really played 1-pocket other than a few practice games with some friends.

I read an interesting debate on here and Facebook with @mikepage about bar table vs big table Fargo Ratings and decided to approach it with an open mind. I practiced for a few days on a 9' table and then entered a 9 ball tournament and a one pocket tournament. I had never seriously played one pocket at that time but I have watched and followed the game a little. To prepare I read Tom Wirths "One Pocket: A Game of controlled aggression" and spent a few hours on the table setting up scenarios.

To my complete surprise I managed to win against the same players that I would have beaten on a bar table and lost to players that I probably would have lost to on the bar table. 9 ball and 1-pocket. I gambled a little bit at 1-pocket and confirmed this. I was surprisingly competitive with players around my own FR (~600) even though they played a lot more 1-pocket.

I think during the debate Mike made a post to the effect that bar table players lack confidence on a 9' table and that affects their play but once they get comfortable they will start playing to their FR. And it doesn't take as long to get comfortable as you might think. That held true for me.

The other thing that I learned is that ball control and pocketing skills have a larger effect on the outcome of the game relative to strategy than I thought, even in 1-pocket. There are nuances in strategy that take time to master, but until you get to a fairly decent level they don't come into play as much as ball control and pocketing. Errors, especially.

Also, I've played Tony 9b on a super tight 9' table and I know how he plays. Most players, even pros, underestimate his rotation game.
Great post and insight from your personal experience. Not some wordy mumbo jumbo.

The fact that you posted this is important evidence of something.
 
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