Does anyone know Wayne Yates from Mechanicville, VA

mikemosconi said:
You can and should do that - but they can still claim shipping damage which is on the seller - AND - more to the point- you just cannot get anyone on the phone anymore to explain your position - AI has removed that ability!
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Put the burden of proof on the buyer. Let them show that the item was damaged during shipping. Then the seller, who hopefully insured the package can go after the shipping agent. I know that it another can of worms, but unfortunately is the way it is at the present time.

Forget the phone, at least be able upload photos that proves your position that the cue(item) that was sold was in x condition when it left your hands.
 
Fore Rail said:
Put the burden of proof on the buyer. Let them show that the item was damaged during shipping. Then the seller, who hopefully insured the package can go after the shipping agent. I know that it another can of worms, but unfortunately is the way it is at the present time.

Forget the phone, at least be able upload photos that proves your position that the cue(item) that was sold was in x condition when it left your hands.
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Yes these are all
Preventive steps that must be taken today/ I always think about, when these issues arise - how guys like Balabushka and Szamboti often sent their finished cues via USPS- usually via a USPS service known as COD - cash on delivery —. you paid balance owed on an item in cash to your postal delivery person- you had the ability to open and inspect the item right in front of the postman - but once you paid him the balance due - your damage claim period ended- back then simplicity and honesty ruled - we have little of either of those today.
 
maha said:
now that the pics are there it does look like he sent it back in good shape but his packaging was the cause of the damage.
so it likely wasnt intentional to cheat you. other than to not complete a fair sale.

but his mistake, so he is responsible for it getting back to you in original condition.

if he was really trying to cheat you he wouldnt have even sent it back or never would include a case even though it was a junk one.

so he should pay to have it sent back and pay you for it. or pay the charge for restoring it to your original condition if it can be.
it's not worthless just diminished in value. and needs work to resell.

you must have his phone number and get texts to him to maybe get a resolution.
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I’ve tried all that. He went dark on me when I showed him the pics of the damaged cue. Must not have taken out any insurance. He KNOWS he is responsible! The PayPal resolution center will not accept any communication from me. They consider the case closed.
 
jay helfert said:
Yes
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I know this is complete hindsight, but...Whenever I sell an item, as soon as I receive the funds via PayPal, the first thing I do is transfer the funds out of my PayPal account, and into my bank account. I do this immediately after every transaction. I hope you are able to get some resolution.
👍
 
j2pac said:
I know this is complete hindsight, but...Whenever I sell an item, as soon as I receive the funds via PayPal, the first thing I do is transfer the funds out of my PayPal account, and into my bank account. I do this immediately after every transaction. I hope you are able to get some resolution.
👍
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I believe PayPal has the ability to suck the funds out of the account it was sent to.
 
fjk said:
I believe PayPal has the ability to suck the funds out of the account it was sent to.
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I think they can only do that if the buyer pays with goods and services. I'm not sure about friends and family. Thankfully I've never encountered an issue...
 
jay helfert said:
Good response here. I shipped it to him in a carefully packed box with adequate protection wrapped around the cue. He sent it back in a cheap $10 cue case. On closer inspection I can see that the cue could easily move around inside the case and there are two exposed hinges where the damage occured. I did tell him that he was responsible for shipping but he remained silent on that subject. I do not know if he took out insurance or not. It came back in a Priority Mail triangle box.

I'll take pics and add them here, showing how it was shipped back to me.
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I had the same type of cue case when I bought my first custom cue (a Meucci) in 1996. I noticed the hinge screws were popping out and put a couple of paper towels in front of them to protect my cue. I used that case off and on for 15 years and the towels worked perfectly.

Sounds like the buyer wasn't malicious in damaging the cue, just that he used a case that had a bad design.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I had the same type of cue case when I bought my first custom cue (a Meucci) in 1996. I noticed the hinge screws were popping out and put a couple of paper towels in front of them to protect my cue. I used that case off and on for 15 years and the towels worked perfectly.

Sounds like the buyer wasn't malicious in damaging the cue, just that he used a case that had a bad design.
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I think maybe you are being a little too kind.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I had the same type of cue case when I bought my first custom cue (a Meucci) in 1996. I noticed the hinge screws were popping out and put a couple of paper towels in front of them to protect my cue. I used that case off and on for 15 years and the towels worked perfectly.

Sounds like the buyer wasn't malicious in damaging the cue, just that he used a case that had a bad design.
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This is a very plausible explanation, but the Buyer's behavior cuts against this being accidental. Perhaps the careless Buyer simply can't bring himself to accept the financial responsibility.
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Any way you cut it, the buyer ends up looking bad. Were the buyer a friend of mine, my advice would be to accept responsibility, pay Jay, and apologize but make no excuses. We are all human, so we all %&#* up, but being human does mean we have to stay %&#*ed up.
 
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jay helfert said:
I shipped it to him in a carefully packed box with adequate protection wrapped around the cue. He sent it back in a cheap $10 cue case. On closer inspection I can see that the cue could easily move around inside the case and there are two exposed hinges where the damage occured. I did tell him that he was responsible for shipping but he remained silent on that subject. I do not know if he took out insurance or not. It came back in a Priority Mail triangle box.
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Those scratches go around the cue in a relatively thin ring of scratches in two different places. My first thought when I saw that was "that cue was being rotated in place about its axis while it was being banged against something. One possible explanation could be that a person was rotating the cue as they banged it against the edge of a table, and they did that in two different places".

Two things make me question whether the damage could have occurred during the return shipping back to you though. The first is that those rings of scratches do not look like they line up with hinges. The ring of scratches on the forearm is a small distance below the hinge, but the ring of scratches on the butt sleeve is a small distance above the hinge. Even if you were able to shift the cue up or down, which it doesn't look like there is room enough to do, you would never be able to get both those rings of scratches to line up with both hinges at the same time so I'm not seeing how the hinges could be the cause.

The second is that the scratches were his whole reason for returning the cue to you so he is admitting that they were there prior to his returning the cue. He also filed the claim with paypal based on the scratches, again, prior to shipping the cue back to you. His knowledge of the scratches prior to shipping the cue back seems to be proof that they were there prior to his shipping the cue back.

If the cue was in pristine condition when you sent it to him, and you had packaged it well, and I have no reason to doubt either, then at this moment it seems most likely that the damage occurred while the cue was in his possession and not during shipping in either direction.
 
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Unfortunately these kinds of transactions end up in a he said, she said situation. And the service will tend to favor the buyer.
 
fjk said:
I'm no PayPal expert but I wouldn't think a F&F participant would be eligible to dispute because there's not supposed to be any purchases involved.
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I do not believe that Pay Pal forces any refunds on a seller who accepted a F&F payment. Secondly, if a seller accepts a goods and services payment and the buyer convinces Pay pal that a refund is warranted- then pay pal will get the refund from the seller even if the seller has transferred the funds out of their Pay pal account by debiting the sellers bank account or charging a seller's card on file.

Actions like this buyer performed are reasons why only non refundable payments are the only protection that seller's have if they do not truly know the buyer.
 
jay helfert said:
He screwed me on a cue sale. I sold him an original Mike Sigel signature cue for $1,000 in perfect, like new condition. After he got the cue he decided he didn't want it and complained to Paypal that it had scratches on it. He then sent me back my cue with severe damage to the butt. Paypal gave him a refund the day the cue was delivered back to me. When I confronted him about the damage to the cue he went quiet on me. Paypal closed the deal and will do nothing for me!

See attached photos. None of this damage was on the cue when he received it from me.
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Did he contact you first to try to arrange a return and refund?
 
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