Class Move by Tyler Styer in Iowa, 10 Ball Showdown , against Justin Bergman

[Duane Remick]

Justin shot an obvious combination shot but failed to call it, ref gave ball in hand to Tyler,
Tyler simply pushed the cue ball against the rail and gave the turn back to Justin

 

[bbb]

at what time does that occur?

 

[Bob Jewett]

2:46:00.

 

[Jimmorrison]

Pretty Cool

 

[dquarasr]

Would have been nice if Bergman acknowledged it. Even a head nod would have been good. Maybe I missed it.

 

[skor]

Respect for the gentleman move.
But really, can't take this event seriously, he wouldn't have done it in a big pro event.

 

[straightline]

So is it )place acronym for unsportsmanlikeconduct here( to refuse an award from the ref?

 

[GideonF]

I don’t think it was BIH for Tyler? Probably just loss of turn.

Weird that they play total flukes in 8b but have to call obvious combinations in 10b.

Either way, class move by Tyler.

 

[weakfingers]

Would have been nice if Bergman acknowledged it. Even a head nod would have been good. Maybe I missed it.

Would’ve also been nice for Bergman to place the cue ball closer to where it originally was. Classy move by Styer though.

 

[Jaden]

I don’t think it was BIH for Tyler? Probably just loss of turn.

Weird that they play total flukes in 8b but have to call obvious combinations in 10b.

Either way, class move by Tyler.

That's the rules. If they're going by the WPA rules. There is no such thing as an obvious bank or carom, they must always be called. Props to him for doing it, but them's was da rules...

 

[Jaden]

Would’ve also been nice for Bergman to place the cue ball closer to where it originally was. Classy move by Styer though.

Yeah, but you got be a little bit in shock there, firstly for the call and secondly that Tyler gives it back to you like that. Hard to think quickly in that kind of situtation but you're not wrong, it would've been cool for him to put it close to exactly where it started.

 

[GideonF]

That's the rules. If they're going by the WPA rules. There is no such thing as an obvious bank or carom, they must always be called. Props to him for doing it, but them's was da rules...

That’s the CSI/BCA Pool League Rule (must always be called even if obvious).

Here is the WPA Rule:

The rule says that the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made. In the example in this case I think the referee would be so satisfied.

To me the language about banks and combos uses “should” rather than “must” for a reason. This is also consistent with the ability of the ref to ask for clarification.

Yes, the safe course is for the shooter to call all banks, kisses or combos but I don’t think it’s required.

[mention]Bob Jewett [/mention] can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Jaden]

That’s the CSI/BCA Pool League Rule (must always be called even if obvious).

Here is the WPA Rule:

View attachment 890202

The rule says that the referee must be satisfied that the intended shot was made. In the example in this case I think the referee would be so satisfied.

To me the language about banks and combos uses “should” rather than “must” for a reason. This is also consistent with the ability of the ref to ask for clarification.

Yes, the safe course is for the shooter to call all banks, kisses or combos but I don’t think it’s required.

[mention]Bob Jewett [/mention] can correct me if I’m wrong.

I haven't competed in a decade and had no reason to check the rules and maybe they've changed the wording, but I explicitly remember the WPA tenball rules stating that there are no obvious banks or combos.

edit: note I'm not claiming that that is true today. I just checked and the rules you posted are the current rules. It's funny though because the changed wording seems more ambiguous than before, you'd think updated rules would be less ambiguous rather than more.

 

[GideonF]

I haven't competed in a decade and had no reason to check the rules and maybe they've changed the wording, but I explicitly remember the WPA tenball rules stating that there are no obvious banks or combos.

edit: note I'm not claiming that that is true today. I just checked and the rules you posted are the current rules. It's funny though because the changed wording seems more ambiguous than before, you'd think updated rules would be less ambiguous rather than more.

The CSI rules are like you say. They give examples like the 1 is frozen to a ball hanging in the pocket and there is no way to make anything except the combo, but even then it must be called. I don’t remember the WPA rules ever being that explicit but it could be.

By the way, I like the old 14.1 videos where the referee called each shot. I remember a story (perhaps apocryphal) of a player who hadn’t played much 14.1 going to a tournament and just playing whatever shot the referee called out !

 

[middleofnowhere]

Tyler should have just taken the shot. The real class would have been for Bergman to not have accepted the charity.

 

[straightline]

Tyler should have just taken the shot. The real class would have been for Bergman to not have accepted the charity.

Rake the balls like Earl.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Tyler should have just taken the shot. The real class would have been for Bergman to not have accepted the charity.

He could at least have put the cue ball back where it was before Styer poked it for the foul.

Does UP use CSI rules for 10 ball? Or did they make up their own?

... Either way, class move by Tyler.

A different way to look at it is that Tyler was saying to the ref, "Your rules are stupid and broken, and I'm not going to play by such tomfoolery." That might be considered unsporting conduct. The players have agreed -- explicitly or implicitly -- to play by the rules of the event.

As for the CSI "call everything" rule, a player got lots of innerwebz crap dumped on him for calling a "non-call" on a female player (Easton??) a year or two ago in a CSI ten ball event. It was a combination on a ball sitting in the pocket. Only slightly more obvious than Bergman's nine ball. The girl's parents were not kind.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Are they adding/changing from 8 ball to 10 ball? Or was it just a one-off thing?

 

[iusedtoberich]

That's the brand new barbox (not released yet) designed similar to the GC7, correct? The pocket fit into the casting looks like the GC7.

 

[GideonF]

Does UP use CSI rules for 10 ball? Or did they make up their own?
…
As for the CSI "call everything" rule, a player got lots of innerwebz crap dumped on him for calling a "non-call" on a female player (Easton??) a year or two ago in a CSI ten ball event. It was a combination on a ball sitting in the pocket. Only slightly more obvious than Bergman's nine ball. The girl's parents were not kind.

As to their rules, I couldn’t exactly find them but did find rules for the Ultimate Pool League 10b. It seems to have its own rules but it looks like they tried to use the WPA rules (and someone missed some words).

If those are the rules they actually used, then I maintain my view that you don’t have to call the shot Justin made even if it’s prudent to do so - curious of you agree (or at least agree if it’s WPA rules).

Yes, it was Easton and a Vietnamese semi-pro player. The CSI call everything rules are crystal clear and he was technically right. I also wondered at the time whether a more rules based culture for pool might have influenced his decision to call the incident.