2 rail banking?
- Thread starter CeaseLess
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CeaseLess
Active member
Yea but kicks are affected heavily by spin and there's plenty of systems for those. I'm sure there's something simple out there that I just don't know of that will give you a solid line, atleast as a reference.
systems are not a crutch
whether you use a system or not
unintentional spin will cause problems with banking/kicking/ and pocketing balls even if you are playing by feel
I think both banks and kicks are effected more by changes in speed than spin. Spin does play a role.
not without organizing thousands of attempts by degree of success - after the 10,000 attempts to get a feel for it.
I would think the parallel shift system for kicking would work reasonably well for banks as well as long as you take into account whatever spin your banked ball will be picking up from the cue ball if any, take into account whether your banked object ball is rolling or sliding when it hits the first rail, and take into account the speed you are banking the object ball and then adjust for those as needed just as you would have to adjust for the speed of the cue ball and the amount and type of spin on it if you were kicking.
Dr. Dave has a literal ton of info on banks and kicks and perhaps some more helpful info can be found somewhere in the following:
i think knowing the lines is the first part, but no, i don’t have anything in mine for banks.
i’d actually like to get better at 2 and 3 rail lag speed bank shots for 1p, myself. feels like i hit it well if i get it to the correct quadrant of the table but i’d like to tighten that up by a diamond or two
If a player does not have the cueing accuracy to avoid unintentional spin, then he should be working only on fundamentals and ball pocketing basics, not kicks and banks.
Systems are a huge distraction if you can't even hit a ball with precision. They can also be a distraction even if you can.
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banks more by speed. but kicks since its just the cueball, spin can send it out of wack more easily than speed.
but for both, its best to learn a constant speed and small amount of spin if needed and be able to repeat it.
Set up some donut holes on your table for a 2 rail bank to a corner pocket. One for the cue ball and one for the object ball. You may have to adjust one of the donut holes so it aligns the shot straight to the 2 rail shot to the corner with a stun shot. Now vary either speed, draw, follow, right, or left English until you get a feel for each. Using inside English can be very useful on shots you may not think will go. HAMB's.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Good posts. IMO systems can get you in the ballpark. But if you seriously watch and analyze what happens when you kick or bank and you will very soon be playing by feel, and at a very high level.
The thing it, most people when not great at either will be tentative as hell. They usually either pop up or don't really watch what happens with the balls.
I'm a huge proponent for watching the OB when you kick. Line up where you think you should and then watch the OB while pulling the trigger. It will give you a wealth of information on what happened. I'm much more accurate watching the OB while I kick. It's so much about speed control (I almost never use anything but straight high when kicking). Watching the OB will instantly tune you into how the rails are reacting.
Good choice. The reason this is a good choice is because all balls will eventually roll with straight top, natural roll. Naturally rolling balls will rebound off of a rail with a smaller angle (come out longer) than incident, so if you can master and memorize this change for all incident angles then you are golden.
As a general rule, when a ball loses angular momentum with a rail collision (as with a rolling ball) the energy has to go somewhere, and it ends up being transferred into the perpendicular linear momentum (PLM) component to the rail. In other-words, the ball comes off of the rail "faster" orthogonally. The opposite is true, when a sliding ball with no spin hits a rail, energy is transferred from the PLM to angular momentum (spin) and comes off "slower" orthogonally. This is dominant, ignoring energy that is actually lost to the rail rubber itself.
This is also why running English helps keep the incident and rebound angles similar, because it minimizes a change in angular momentum during the collision.
do you mean cb (cue ball) not ob (object ball)?
for those like me who wanted to be sure what "orthogonally" meant
Orthogonality - Wikipedia
for those like me who had to be sure what perpendicular linear momentum means
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Search Assist
Perpendicular linear momentum refers to the component of linear momentum that acts at a right angle to a given reference direction or line. In physics, this concept is often used in analyzing motion and collisions, where the direction of momentum can significantly affect the outcome of interactions between objects.
Understanding Perpendicular Linear Momentum
Definition of Linear Momentum
Linear momentum is defined as the product of an object's mass and its velocity. It is a vector quantity, meaning it has both magnitude and direction. The formula for linear momentum pp is:p=m⋅vp=m⋅v
where mm is the mass and vv is the velocity. The unit of momentum in the International System of Units (SI) is kilogram meter per second (kg⋅m/s).
Perpendicular Momentum
When discussing perpendicular linear momentum, it typically refers to the scenario where two objects collide or interact at right angles (90 degrees) to each other. In such cases, the momentum vectors of the objects can be analyzed separately along the perpendicular axes.Conservation of Momentum
In a closed system, the total momentum before and after an interaction remains constant. This principle applies even when the momentum vectors are perpendicular. For example, if two objects collide at right angles, their individual momenta can be calculated and combined using vector addition.Example of Perpendicular Linear Momentum
Consider two objects colliding: one moving horizontally and the other moving vertically. Their momenta can be represented as:- Object A (horizontal): pA=mA⋅vApA=mA⋅vA
- Object B (vertical): pB=mB⋅vBpB=mB⋅vB
P=pA2+pB2P=pA2+pB2
This shows how perpendicular momentum components combine to give the resultant momentum of the system.
Understanding these concepts is crucial in physics, especially in analyzing collisions and interactions in two-dimensional motion.
Wikipediaso if i cant hit where i am aiming
you are saying
i should not learn anything about banking or kicking or anything else about pool until
all until my fundamentals are mastered?
why not start learning about other things while you are devoting most of your time on fundamentals
why wait a few years until your fundamentals are solid???
lets just agree to disagree about systems
i find them usefull as do many elite players in pool and bliilards
you dont find them helpful and from your post think they are a distraction
thats ok
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there are many kicks you will not be successful at without knowing how to kick with spin.
just sayin
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