So for the time being, jump cuts are the way to go? Also that split hit where you stop the CB. That one leaves no evidence.
How to Judge SPLIT HITS … Everything You Need to Know
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
At every local event I go to, and also the local events I am the TD, the TD says at the player's meeting to record any close hits in slow motion. EVERY single player has that capability on their phones. There is really no reason NOT to do it, imo. Unless we are talking about a big pro event.
Even worse, people will comment on the video post who OBVIOUSLY never watched it, and say the dumbest things! I had to refrain from blasting some of the people on facebook.
Lots of us DO appreciate your work, thank you again.
This an interesting question. Is it better to call the foul when 99 percent of the time it is correct but 1 percent of the time it’s not a foul, or is it better to say “on thin hits like this I cannot rule out a good hit so I can’t call a foul”?
One could argue that regulation 25 supports the latter.
25. REFEREE UNCERTAINTY
If the referee cannot determine whether a player fouled, the shot will be considered legal.
It’s kinda like the accidental miscue ruling. Even though we know that the vast majority of accidental miscues involve the CB hitting the shaft, we can’t say so with certainty because in rare instances there is no contact. So it’s not called a foul unless the contact with the shaft is clear.
Correct. In this rare situation, the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter (unless video replay clearly shows a wrong-ball+first hit).Also that split hit where you stop the CB. That one leaves no evidence.
If overhead high-speed cameras are not available at “big pro events” (which should be the case), I think the ref should use their phone like everybody else does, even though it might not seem “professional.” Getting calls wrong is much more unprofessional.
That happens here quite a bit also, but I think it is much worse on Facebook.Even worse, people will comment on the video post who OBVIOUSLY never watched it, and say the dumbest things! I had to refrain from blasting some of the people on facebook.
Thank you for being among the minority who actually watches my videos before commenting.
This is an interesting question, and it should probably be clarified in the rules.
With thin hits, it is extremely rare the first ball is hit a second time, so there is reasonable certainly (no reasonable doubt) the 2nd ball is hit first when the first ball is back-cut.
With miscues, it is extremely rare for there not to be secondary contact, so we are reasonably certain (have no reasonable doubt) about secondary contact, but the rules specifically state that miscues should not be called fouls unless there is clear visual evidence of secondary contact. For the reasons for this, see the section at the bottom of the page here:
I absolutely picked up on the very thin hit, object ball being hit twice and looking like a good hit even though it was in fact a bad hit and the need for slo-mo video to catch it. I only watched the video once but I felt it was made plainly clear.Good point. Understood. I guess I didn't want to emphasize it too much since it is such a rare occurrence.
PS: I'm surprised you didn't complain about the length of this one like you have about other long videos in the past. But I am glad you seemed to make it all the way through. Good job!
Badpenguin
Well-known member
One thing this does prove, with your attempts at a simultaneous hit, is that you cannot repeat aim and tip placement every shot. Which is why I think you should engineer something that can take human imperfections out of the equation. Otherwise, everything you are doing is anecdotal at best, it cannot be repeated by anyone else, even yourself.
CBL
I also sent you another donation to show my support.Thank you for being among the minority who actually watches my videos before commenting.
Oikawa
Well-known member
Dave, how wide (physically) you think the margin within which the "semi-simultaneous hit" happens is? e.g. from the draw shot example in that video, it seems definitely smaller than 0.1mm. With semi-simultaneous, I mean the range where the CB is sent back inbetween the two "normal" routes. So not going straight back (which becomes a definition issue, even seemingly straight has a slight bias to other side if you zoom in enough), but rather just the entire range where CB contacted both OB's simultaneously even for a brief moment, causing that inbetween draw reaction.
~0.1mm?
~0.01mm?
~0.1mm?
~0.01mm?
I bet even a well designed machine would have a tough time achieving and repeating simultaneous hits. The balls still need to be set up absolutely perfectly every time, and the machine would need to be aligned (and stay aligned) perfectly relative to the balls, and the cloth in between the balls can’t change at all in between shots (no fiber changes, no dirt or chalk dust), and the CB needs to be absolutely perfect so things don’t change with CB orientation. The machine would also need to be built with extremely tight tolerances, and it would need to be very stiff and mounted very firmly to the table. That’s a long list of things that can go wrong (and I’m probably not considering everything).
Thank you!I also sent you another donation to show my support.
The machine needs rigidity because it has no real time guidance. (troubled childhood etc...) but human can focus on going through the CB as effortlessly as he please. Few thousand hours of that should be worth a couple nanometers.
This could be calculated based on the compression of the balls, but I have not done this. I would guess the range is in between your two guesses, maybe in the 0.05mm to 0.01mm range, but that is a total guess. Faster speed would make the range a little bigger (since the balls would compress more).
I think you can figure overlapping contact from the speed of the cue ball and the contact time. After first contact, the direction of the cue ball and its speed will be changing to the new path, so it's a little complicated, but you can take an average to determine how much it will move towards the other ball during contact. The time will be about 0.1 millisecond. If the cue ball is moving towards the other ball at 1 m/sec on average during the contact time, it will move about 0.1 millimeter, so any shot within +-0.1 mm of the exact center will result in overlapping contact. That's for a medium speed shot. A slower shot has to be more centered because the contact time will be about the same but the average speed sideways will be smaller (and directly proportional to the incoming speed).
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Yeah, but I bet it would still really be cool designing and building it.
Thanks Bob. I was over complicating it. 0.1 mm doesn’t seem so tough for the shot in the video. I was able to get overlapping contact about 1 in 10 shots in the video. I wonder how much better a top player can do.