Nick Varner is a Fargorate 777

David in FL said:
Interesting.

I know a ton of people well over 60 who play over 500 fargo reported games a year. Why would you think their ratings are over inflated?

Just for shits and giggles, I looked at my own. I'm 68 and played 632 Fargo reported games in the past year. At 4660 games in the system, is my rating inflated?
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Well the root assumption is kids are improving, adults are stagnant, and senior citizens are declining. In everything in life, not just pool. Since FargoRate is a record of past performance, (even though newer [past] performance is weighted more heavily than older [past] performance), if the first sentence is believed, then their expected performance in a future match would be different than whatever the fargo number is.

How about this. You are in a capped 571 event. Everyone under the cap plays even. There is a 70 year old, still very active in pool, and his fargo is a 565. There is a 16 year old, also very active in pool, and his fargo is a 565. Which player are you buying in the calcutta?
 
iusedtoberich said:
Well the root assumption is kids are improving, adults are stagnant, and senior citizens are declining. In everything in life, not just pool. Since FargoRate is a record of past performance, (even though newer [past] performance is weighted more heavily than older [past] performance), if the first sentence is believed, then their expected performance in a future match would be different than whatever the fargo number is.
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I don't necessarily agree with your "root assumption". There are just too many variables there. Regardless though, even if true, it wouldn't mean that anyone's current rating is any less accurate than anyone else's...

iusedtoberich said:
How about this. You are in a capped 571 event. Everyone under the cap plays even. There is a 70 year old, still very active in pool, and his fargo is a 565. There is a 16 year old, also very active in pool, and his fargo is a 565. Which player are you buying in the calcutta?
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Probably the kid because a tournament requires stamina that the 70 year old may be lacking.

But on a single race to 7 between the two? I'll take the more experienced of the two every time...
 
iusedtoberich said:
Well the root assumption is kids are improving, adults are stagnant, and senior citizens are declining. In everything in life, not just pool. Since FargoRate is a record of past performance, (even though newer [past] performance is weighted more heavily than older [past] performance), if the first sentence is believed, then their expected performance in a future match would be different than whatever the fargo number is.

How about this. You are in a capped 571 event. Everyone under the cap plays even. There is a 70 year old, still very active in pool, and his fargo is a 565. There is a 16 year old, also very active in pool, and his fargo is a 565. Which player are you buying in the calcutta?
Click to expand...

I don’t think you can assume that all older players are declining or that all junior players are improving. That said, my guess is that the most consistently underrated group in Fargo are junior players that are dedicated to improving, because their rate of improvement outpaces their Fargo. For the rest of us, we get better slowly (if at all) and rarely have the quick jumps you see with younger players.
 
GideonF said:
I don’t think you can assume that all older players are declining or that all junior players are improving. That said, my guess is that the most consistently underrated group in Fargo are junior players that are dedicated to improving, because their rate of improvement outpaces their Fargo. For the rest of us, we get better slowly (if at all) and rarely have the quick jumps you see with younger players.
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It's also worth noting that young players tend to have far fewer games in the system and therefore their ratings are more volatile. That seems to me to mean that for any given rating, the newer/younger players are much more likely to be either under or over inflated at any given point in time...
 
David in FL said:
I don't necessarily agree with your "root assumption". There are just too many variables there. Regardless though, even if true, it wouldn't mean that anyone's current rating is any less accurate than anyone else's...



Probably the kid because a tournament requires stamina that the 70 year old may be lacking.

But on a single race to 7 between the two? I'll take the more experienced of the two every time...
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That's why god made testosterone injections for old farts.
 
Fargo is broken like all handicapping systems............should be dumped.

If your

a Player asking for weight or Handicap, go back and put your training wheels on your bicycle, until you learn to ride.

1778422321486.png


Back long ago people just match up, and played.......All tournament were open or Pro, or Amateur Only.

Keep Pool Simple.

Fargo exists for ONE REASON............SOMEONE IS Profiting from FARGO.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
If your a Player asking for weight or Handicap, go back and put your training wheels on your bicycle, until you learn to ride.

…

Back long ago people just match up, and played.......
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How long ago are you thinking about when people didn’t ask for weight or a handicap? Ancient Roman times?

Every story I’ve heard of gambling from the “old days” involved weight unless the players were even. “Buddy was giving the guy the 7 and the breaks and still robbed him”.

CJ talks openly about how the road players would have a book with info on who to play in each town and how much weight you could give them. Or how you needed a local to give them the inside scoop.

IMO Fargo just puts that information online for everyone (with more than guesswork).
 
GideonF said:
How long ago are you thinking about when people didn’t ask for weight or a handicap? Ancient Roman times?

Every story I’ve heard of gambling from the “old days” involved weight unless the players were even. “Buddy was giving the guy the 7 and the breaks and still robbed him”.

CJ talks openly about how the road players would have a book with info on who to play in each town and how much weight you could give them. Or how you needed a local to give them the inside scoop.

IMO Fargo just puts that information online for everyone (with more than guesswork).
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Right, exactly. Without weight, there would be NO action. Does not matter if its 1926 or 2026.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Right, exactly. Without weight, there would be NO action. Does not matter if its 1926 or 2026.
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Or 1807. The first major book in English about cue sports, Enoch White's "Billiards", has 12 pages of tables telling you, for example, if the spot was 5 on the wire going to 12 to make an even game, and the current score is 7-7, the correct odds for betting at this point are 5-2. So, 220 years ago, it was absolutely standard to give up a spot and both the players and the onlookers bet it up continuously, even in the middle of a match.

As for @CocoboloCowboy, he seems to think the only purpose of FargoRate is to set spots/handicaps. I think that's only a minor aspect of it.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Fargo is broken like all handicapping systems............should be dumped.

If your

a Player asking for weight or Handicap, go back and put your training wheels on your bicycle, until you learn to ride.

View attachment 902981

Back long ago people just match up, and played.......All tournament were open or Pro, or Amateur Only.

Keep Pool Simple.

Fargo exists for ONE REASON............SOMEONE IS Profiting from FARGO.
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I nominate this post as the worst of the year.
CocoboloCowboy said:
Who is profiting from Fargo Bob, follow the money.

Why does Pool need any rating system?
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Why does bowling track averages?
Why are there handicaps in golf?
Why are there scores on quizzes?
Why does the NFL have an injury report?
Because people want to know, thats why.
 
GideonF said:
How long ago are you thinking about when people didn’t ask for weight or a handicap? Ancient Roman times?

Every story I’ve heard of gambling from the “old days” involved weight unless the players were even. “Buddy was giving the guy the 7 and the breaks and still robbed him”.

CJ talks openly about how the road players would have a book with info on who to play in each town and how much weight you could give them. Or how you needed a local to give them the inside scoop.

IMO Fargo just puts that information online for everyone (with more than guesswork).
Click to expand...
I've seen 2 of those books. Locations, order of people to play, what they would bet, best games, physical descriptions, nights they would work (when they were workers at the pool halls) how much they could get from the register to gamble with. Nice pieces of history for sure.
 
I personally would like to see two different fargorates per player:
One, their "lifetime rating", which is shown now,
and Two, their "rating over the past 500 games".
I feel the "past 500 games rating" would be a more accurate rating of how they are playing/trending now, and thus more useful/fair.
Like other people have pointed out, and I have personally seen with the younger players I play with, fargorate's formula has a tuff time keeping up with players who are developing quickly. This gives the younger players a huge advantage in the lower fargo-capped tourneys imo.
 
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