Do cue makers who make wood shafts still use a wood sealer dip?

Mensabum said:
Perhaps it has something to do with my learning how to play with wood, but there's a tactile sensation, an awareness I get from wood that resonates from the tip on contact, all the way down the cue to my other hand - that I need, that I've gotten used to. Without it, my game suffers.
Reading braille is the closest thing I can parallel it with.
Call me crazy. 😉
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Hey you!
There.

And don't call me crazy.
 
Fore Rail said:
Hickory golf is still a thing, so I have to believe wood shafts in pool will continue to be used as well.
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There would need to be an argument to be made why wood is better. Can you think of one? All cue makers/manufacturers will have to make CF part of their offerings. Eventually, wood will not even be part of the conversation.

Right now if you have a cue and need a new shaft (wood), it is a huge hassle to get one made. In most cases it requires sending off your butt and waiting who knows how long. Just the ease of replacement alone it a big plus for CF.
 
Mensabum said:
Perhaps it has something to do with my learning how to play with wood, but there's a tactile sensation, an awareness I get from wood that resonates from the tip on contact, all the way down the cue to my other hand - that I need, that I've gotten used to. Without it, my game suffers.
Reading braille is the closest thing I can parallel it with.
Call me crazy. 😉
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That may be true for you, and probably me as well. I was always very picky about shafts and the feedback I got. That is not the case with new players, or older players for that matter who have switched to CF after a small learning curve.

If I was younger and still playing I have no doubt I would probably be playing with, or at least give an honest try to CF. I think I would hate the glove though.
The obvious truth is, CF. will be the only thing around in a few years.
 
I was going to stay out of this thread.....however, figured I'd inject some of my non-wisdom.
I don't believe wooden shafts are going to disappear completely. One reason is the customer can customize a shaft taper and tip size to their liking without needing to go back to the original builder.
Yes, the quality of a wood shaft can vary from builder to builder. It is on the customer to do their research and decide if the builder has a quality reputation for their wooden shafts. As far as needing to send the butt back to the builder to match a shaft, that is an ancient method that should no longer be needed if the builder is set up with mandrels. On rare occasion I may need the butt from earlier cues I have built, however most of the time the customer is looking for a refresh of the butt anyway and they figure why not a few extra shafts also.
A good quality close up photo of the ring is generally all that is needed to match shafts.
My build book is closed, however I make a concerted effort to get additional shafts worked in a timely manner if possible.
As a builder one of the negatives of wooden shafts is it takes many, many sticks in inventory and rotation to stay ahead of the game.
Personally, I've built several CF shafts from different manufacturers to test them out and have tried several different cues with CF shafts and just don't care for them. But, I have played with wood all my time on the the table.
As far as the young generation being introduced to billiards now if they have never played much with wood or are not taught how to care for their wooden shafts of course they will naturally gravitate toward CF. They don't need to worry about humidity, heat because they left their cues in an auto trunk all day and several other factors a wooden shaft owner needs to pay attention to in order to keep their playing equipment in pristine shape.
The younger crowd these days have a much different mind set than us older people. Happens ever generational change.
In close, wooden shafts will never totally disappear although they may go by the way of the muscle car era. There are still many enthusiasts!
 
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Here os something that just popped up on my facebook feed…
This is a “dream setup”….
IMG_7389.jpeg

Years ago, a Dream setup would have been a Justis or Witten case with a nice custom cue.

So do you really think wood has a chance?
 
Mensabum said:
Perhaps it has something to do with my learning how to play with wood, but there's a tactile sensation, an awareness I get from wood that resonates from the tip on contact, all the way down the cue to my other hand - that I need, that I've gotten used to. Without it, my game suffers.
Reading braille is the closest thing I can parallel it with.
Call me crazy. 😉
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I don't even like shooting with newer wood shafts. That's why I play with 30+ year old Hueblers.
 
Torrefaction is the most reliable stabilizing method. Shafts move very little between cuts, often not at all.
Nelsonite does help, but as mentioned it's toxic af.
I recently acquired a bunch of nelsonited blanks from a guy that dipped them 20 years ago. They're quite stable and the odor when cut is minimal. I actually like the way they play when finished.
 
Sheldon said:
Torrefaction is the most reliable stabilizing method. Shafts move very little between cuts, often not at all.
Nelsonite does help, but as mentioned it's toxic af.
I recently acquired a bunch of nelsonited blanks from a guy that dipped them 20 years ago. They're quite stable and the odor when cut is minimal. I actually like the way they play when finished.
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I have yet to play with kielwood shaft but it's on the list. I have some wood to build a couple of cues, when that happens I will probably have at least one kielwood shaft built.

EDIT: I've heard they hit very similar to older wood shafts.
 
middleofnowhere said:
There would need to be an argument to be made why wood is better. Can you think of one? All cue makers/manufacturers will have to make CF part of their offerings. Eventually, wood will not even be part of the conversation.

Right now if you have a cue and need a new shaft (wood), it is a huge hassle to get one made. In most cases it requires sending off your butt and waiting who knows how long. Just the ease of replacement alone it a big plus for CF.
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I'm sure when the steel shaft took over in golf almost 100 years ago the same was said about hickory yet they are still around. Graphite has not completely taken over from steel today either.

I bought a custom cue not too long ago that only came with one shaft. Simply called the cue-maker for another shaft. Did not have to send in the butt & the wait was not more than a month. Shaft is a perfect match.

Certain pins & joint diameters can be matched 100% off the rack, some others you might need digital calipers to do a little measuring.

We are talking about pool here. Propelling a ball into another ball with some sort of installed tip. There really is not better, best or whatever people want to say - there is only different. IMO there is never going to be a advance in technology that makes that big of a difference.

The nut behind the butt makes the difference.
 
Chili Palmer said:
I have yet to play with kielwood shaft but it's on the list. I have some wood to build a couple of cues, when that happens I will probably have at least one kielwood shaft built.

EDIT: I've heard they hit very similar to older wood shafts.
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I prefer radial laminated KW. If you go with solid shafts make sure there is no grain runoff. I've seen a bunch of them break. KW is much more brittle and also sands very rapidly, go easy with sandpaper.
 
Chili Palmer said:
I have yet to play with kielwood shaft but it's on the list. I have some wood to build a couple of cues, when that happens I will probably have at least one kielwood shaft built.

EDIT: I've heard they hit very similar to older wood shafts.
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have no idea what older wood shaft but if you are referring to really old growth then I get the concept of what kind of feel or hit you might be saying. just letting you know I don't have any experience hitting with one.

anyway, just sharing my experience with kielwood since receiving mine early this month. mine is a hybrid kielwood with a CF insert. it is very straight with no signs of roll. I'm not sure about the numbers or the level of low deflection it has but I can attest that it is really low deflection. I had a buddy of mine have a try for it and loved it very much. mind you he didn't have any idea what a KW or didn't know he was using a kielwood. all he knew he was using a dark brown colored shaft. he was eyeing it all game long.
 
Rocky Tillis used to check out old house cues that have been in use for years. He would buy them from the pool room when he found ones that met what he was looking for. He then cut out the part with enough meat and turned them down for shafts. He made me a sneaky Pete one time and I got to admit it was one of the best playing cues I ever owned.

I was just thinking about this and found it interesting. Rocky was an interesting guy. I used to talk for hours with him when I'd be in Tampa and he would be at Baker's pool room. He always had stuff in his pockets and some new interesting idea for a joint or ferrul or something.

I remember the joint on that sneaky Pete was different in some way. I just can't remember exactly what whether the screw was in the shaft or what.
I came back to add this, I do remember one thing, the steel joint, even though it was a sneaky Pete it had a steel joint, was only about a half an inch long.
 
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ShootingArts said:
Besides Nelsonite there was a product called Resolute that didn't smell as strongly. However both were pure hell on your lungs. I used to go outside with a breeze blowing and still have to bring a fan out to dip shafts in an upright three or four inch PVC pipe. It is amazing how much of these liquids a shaft blank can soak up in a minute or less. The liquid foams like it is in a hard boil until all the air comes out of a piece of wood and there is a lot of air in wood!

Aside from the little matter of killing myself, I quit using these dips because they deaden the feel of the hit a little. Very noticeable if you test the same wood side by side.

Hu
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May I ask how much the weight is being affected bei soaking a shaft? Weight of a shaft before and after soaking (+ drying of course). Many thanks in advance
 
riedmich said:
May I ask how much the weight is being affected bei soaking a shaft? Weight of a shaft before and after soaking (+ drying of course). Many thanks in advance
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Far too many years ago to remember! Not as much after drying as you would think watching the bubbles come up. At a guess two-thirds of the soaked wood is going to be cut away in later turnings. Bearing in mind this is a guess but I doubt a finished soaked shaft weighs a half ounce more than it would have if it would have been turned without soaking. The stabilizing dip is before normal sealing and finishing so one additive replaces another. You can expect 100% wood saturation with the stabilizer.

Weight was an early concern but I believe it was a nonissue. The chemicals were considerably lighter than water best I recall and they mostly evaporated away anyhow. I think weight and balance were nonissues when stabilizing wood.

This is definitely a question to pass by our cue builders here. It has been ages since I have been there but they were a very knowledgeable and helpful bunch back when I was working on cues. Unfortunately the particular people I would consult are dead or gone for other reasons but as a group we still have a fine bunch of cue builders on the forums they frequent. Approach them on their specialty forums and stay away from the political threads on NPR if you want to talk business or technical advice!(grin)

Hu
 
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