Always call a ball in 10b...

[Rocket354]

Great match between Kristina Tkach and Han Yu at the women's Predator event in Austria.

Watching it, I got the clearest reminder in a while of why players should always call a ball in 10b, even if they are playing safe.

Link to the youtube video of the shot

Hill-hill for the first set. Yu plays safe off the 2, but whoops, accidentally makes it, leaving the 3 open not for a shot, but for an easy safe. If Yu had called the 2, she would be be shooting, but instead Kristina gets to play the gimme safety, and from there runs out the rack and the set.

I see too many pros making that same mistake. It is pretty basic game theory. But in 10b, because the other player has the option to give the table back to you if you slop a ball in, one should always (not sometimes, not usually, not almost always, but always) call a ball anyways. That is because there are four outcomes from a safety play:

1) You make no balls, and get the hook
2) You make no balls, and miss the hook
3) You make a ball, and get the hook
4) You make a ball, and miss the hook

For #1-3, whether you call a pocket or not, you are no worse off. For #1/2 you didn't make a ball so it'll be your opponent's shot anyways. For #3, you'll get the table given back to you even if you don't call a ball. So it doesn't make a difference at all in three of the four cases whether or not you call a pocket.

But in case #4 it matters a lot, because it can be either you at the table or your opponent, who is definitely not going to give the table back. So call the most likely pocket even if playing safe. You'll never be worse off, but will sometimes be much, much better off.

(I won't spoil the ending of the above match for those who haven't seen it, but it's a great match full of high-level play and is definitely worth a watch.)

 

[skogstokig]

i always do it. calling "safe" is pointless and sometimes detrimental in 10-ball. learned the hard way..

 

[TeddyKGB]

zero reason to call safe unless youre playing 8 ball and want to pocket the ball while giving up the next shot for strategy

 

[Lowell]

zero reason to call safe unless youre playing 8 ball and want to pocket the ball while giving up the next shot for strategy

I'm kind of skeptical of that rule (with no return option) being a thing, that's one area where I actually prefer APA 8 ball

 

[Rocket354]

Calling safe is definitely pointless. But calling nothing, what a lot of players do, can also be detrimental.

 

[jax_joe]

I'm kind of skeptical of that rule (with no return option) being a thing, that's one area where I actually prefer APA 8 ball

"Skeptical" is putting it lightly.

 

[kingwang]

There is one very good reason to not do it every time: game flow and mental fatigue. We all know how important it is to keep it as simple as possible when things are getting tense and you're getting tired. By calling a ball every time, you're adding the following steps

1. Identifying the possible balls that might get bumped
2. Identifying which pockets those balls might get bumped into
3. Choosing between the options to determine the best one
4. Calling the pocket
5. Making sure the ref or your opponent heard you

It's super minor, but it's definitely a drag. Yes, you can short circuit the process a bit and just choose the first one that comes to mind or not worry about whether or not your opponent heard you, but it's human nature to consider all possibilities once you start.

I think the way pros play 10 ball is pretty optimal: just call a ball whenever they think there's a chance they'll accidentally make a ball. It just happens that pros are humans too and sometimes you misjudge the situation.

 

[easy-e]

I'm kind of skeptical of that rule (with no return option) being a thing, that's one area where I actually prefer APA 8 ball

That also applies in Ultimate Pool. You cannot make your ball and turn the table over. I like that rule. I don't have any big issue with the rule sets that allow it, but I definitely prefer the UP way.

 

[skor]

The rules have changed, can’t call safe

 

[Lowell]

That also applies in Ultimate Pool. You cannot make your ball and turn the table over. I like that rule. I don't have any big issue with the rule sets that allow it, but I definitely prefer the UP way.

That's how I feel. It's not a huge deal to me either way, but there is merit to APA/UP style where playing such a safe shot requires the dexterity of NOT making it but leaving the ball close to a pocket. It's a good skill to have to, I won a match on Sunday by intentionally missing a shot by a hair.

 

[Good Sam]

The rules have changed, can’t call safe

Which rule set says you can't call safe. Just recently, my captain told me I couldn't call safe in 10 ball, but couldn't point me to a rule set that specifically prohibits calling safe in 10 ball.

 

[Lowell]

Which rule set says you can't call safe. Just recently, my captain told me I couldn't call safe in 10 ball, but couldn't point me to a rule set that specifically prohibits calling safe in 10 ball.

This is, to my knowledge, an area where pro 10 ball and BCAPL differ (like with early 10s being allowed or not).

In pro pool, the incoming player would have the option to make you shoot again if you pocket a ball in a non called pocket.

 

[Good Sam]

No different in bcapl . if you make a ball in a non called pocket, or make a different ball than you called, your opponent can put you back in. I'm looking for the "can't call safe".

 

[skor]

Which rule set says you can't call safe. Just recently, my captain told me I couldn't call safe in 10 ball, but couldn't point me to a rule set that specifically prohibits calling safe in 10 ball.

WPA rules

 

[Good Sam]

WPA rules

View attachment 911784

Thank you

 

[iusedtoberich]

Yep. I played a lot of 10 ball last year. When playing a safe, it's always advantageous to call a ball. I actually won a couple of games because my opponents didn't, and I then had the option when they accidentally pocketed the ball they were playing safe on.

 

[Chili Palmer]

On the flip side, sometimes you might want to call a pocket that you WON'T make the ball if you're playing safe. In the video below Ropero/SFR were on the hill, Ropero plays safe but called the 2 in the top right corner and made it, SFR was hooked and scratched. Fisher/Kazakis ran out the game to go hill-hill which meant a shootout. Ropero and SFR won the shootout but it could've turned out much worse.

 

[Rocket354]

On the flip side, sometimes you might want to call a pocket that you WON'T make the ball if you're playing safe. In the video below Ropero/SFR were on the hill, Ropero plays safe but called the 2 in the top right corner and made it, SFR was hooked and scratched. Fisher/Kazakis ran out the game to go hill-hill which meant a shootout. Ropero and SFR won the shootout but it could've turned out much worse.

Isn't that situation #3 above? If she had called a different pocket, her opponents still would have the option of putting FSR back in, which they definitely would. So, no difference.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Isn't that situation #3 above? If she had called a different pocket, her opponents still would have the option of putting FSR back in, which they definitely would. So, no difference.

You are correct, I misread it the first time.