I think of the break as a skill set, so why have rules, and so many rules, restricting the break?

[vintagecollectibles831]

I believe that if a player has put in the time, and practice needed to master the break, and not only controlling the cue ball, but also the object balls, then they should not restrict the player from doing what he is so good at, because that is a skill set that the player worked really hard on.

It seems that they keep adding restrictions for the Pros, with the way they can, and can't break, and what needs to happen, and then even when they do everything right, and follow all of those rules, a Ref can still call a foul on that player.

Just does not seem right.

And, please forgive me. I really do not follow Pro pool.

There just seems to be so much shadiness in this game, with racking for example, but even in perfect conditions, and the players following all of the rules, they still can get flack, or whatever, from their opponents, and the Ref's.

I imagine this has already been discussed a billion times, but thanks for any thoughts.

 

[straightline]

Only the guilty know for sure.

 

[Jaden]

I believe that if a player has put in the time, and practice needed to master the break, and not only controlling the cue ball, but also the object balls, then they should not restrict the player from doing what he is so good at, because that is a skill set that the player worked really hard on.

It seems that they keep adding restrictions for the Pros, with the way they can, and can't break, and what needs to happen, and then even when they do everything right, and follow all of those rules, a Ref can still call a foul on that player.

Just does not seem right.

And, please forgive me. I really do not follow Pro pool.

There just seems to be so much shadiness in this game, with racking for example, but even in perfect conditions, and the players following all of the rules, they still can get flack, or whatever, from their opponents, and the Ref's.

I imagine this has already been discussed a billion times, but thanks for any thoughts.

It's really simple, nineball one on the spot isn't really a skillset. You hit the one square and hard and the wing ball will go every time. I actually much preferred tenball to nineball for that reason until the WNT nineball break was introduced.

Break from the box, nine on the spot require two things to consistently break well, you have to have speed control and accuracy. You can hit the right speed but be off a little and the one won't go or you'll lose control of the cb, or you can hit the right spot but hit too hard or too soft and you'll miss the one in the side.

That break got me enjoying nineball again and now WNT 9 ball is my favorite game.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

It's really simple, nineball one on the spot isn't really a skillset. You hit the one square and hard and the wing ball will go every time. I actually much preferred tenball to nineball for that reason until the WNT nineball break was introduced.

Break from the box, nine on the spot require two things to consistently break well, you have to have speed control and accuracy. You can hit the right speed but be off a little and the one won't go or you'll lose control of the cb, or you can hit the right spot but hit too hard or too soft and you'll miss the one in the side.

That break got me enjoying nineball again and now WNT 9 ball is my favorite game.

This guy was following all of the WNT Rules, and the Ref, and his opponent was still giving him a hard time, the entire match, and the Ref eventually calling a foul on him, when he did nothing wrong, and did everything as the rules restricted of him.

 

[Lowell]

I honestly think that virtually every pro break I see in the modern game is strong enough that it should not be penalized, unless it's a scratch of course.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Maybe a game using "pills" in a bottle could help "randomize" the break.

After the break, pills corresponding to the numbers of the balls remaining on the table are placed in the pill bottle and shaken up.

For example, the 1 ball is made on the break and balls 2 through 9 remain on the table, so pills 2 through 9 are placed in the bottle and shaken and then a pill is extracted.

Whatever number the extracted pill is, that number ball swaps places on the table with the lowest number ball on the table, which in this case is the 2 ball.

If the number 2 pill was extracted, the 2 ball would remain in its current place on the table.

Using this method, the breaker would never know where the lowest numbered ball would be positioned on the table after the break.

There would be no need to use the pills if there was a dry break.

 

[King T]

It's really simple, nineball one on the spot isn't really a skillset. You hit the one square and hard and the wing ball will go every time. I actually much preferred tenball to nineball for that reason until the WNT nineball break was introduced.

Break from the box, nine on the spot require two things to consistently break well, you have to have speed control and accuracy. You can hit the right speed but be off a little and the one won't go or you'll lose control of the cb, or you can hit the right spot but hit too hard or too soft and you'll miss the one in the side.

That break got me enjoying nineball again and now WNT 9 ball is my favorite game.

All the Pro tournaments cured the wing ball issue by going to 4 1/4'' pockets..., yes the wing ball still goes, but few players are making multiple balls and even fewer are running out, there are very few big packages.

 

[straightline]

I honestly think that virtually every pro break I see in the modern game is strong enough that it should not be penalized, unless it's a scratch of course.

Winning isn't everything but apparently breaking is less.

 

[straightline]

Break to a speed app. 15 mph minimum? No other ruleage.
But wait, there's more!

An empty break shall be considered grounds for the breaker to continue.
Balls pocketed on the break shall be grounds to relinquish the inning to the opposition.

 

[straightline]

Just a stab at unplayable rules. Kinda like perpetual motion - gotta cheat with cold fusion or something.

And of course sacrasm. Did either of those two finish well?

All those guys who recommend playing via feel only - bent brains make for crappy results.

 

[Flakeandrun]

All the Pro tournaments cured the wing ball issue by going to 4 1/4'' pockets..., yes the wing ball still goes, but few players are making multiple balls and even fewer are running out, there are very few big packages.

I like 9 on the spot from the side (as they play in Tangzhen China Open) on 4" pockets. WNT format is also fine when you are playing players who have put the time in to consistently hit the rack hard. The issues arise in smaller tournaments, or low-stakes match ups, where people mince the break because they haven't got the foggiest how to hit it. I get so many people discussing the break with me at my local.

I would happily take a game in both formats. Breaking can be considered a skill in both (unlike one on the spot, as mentioned above).

 

[Island Drive]

Gorst mentioned having a speed gun quite awhile back.

 

[Icon of Sin]

Marketability and entertainment.

The goal for viewership is the banger. Harder break shots are more entertaining then the soft break. It also leads to harder run outs since there is less cueball control and the 2 ball is racked randomly.

 

[Jaden]

Gorst mentioned having a speed gun quite awhile back.

There's a 5 dollar app that tells you the speed. Has to do with the distance to the balls and the time it takes from the sound of striking the cb to the sound of striking the head ball. It's accurate and reliable.

 

[trob]

This guy was following all of the WNT Rules, and the Ref, and his opponent was still giving him a hard time, the entire match, and the Ref eventually calling a foul on him, when he did nothing wrong, and did everything as the rules restricted of him.

Because he’s a douche that was soft breaking and had been warned earlier. then when he got a foul called on him he actually didn’t soft break he just hit it bad . I don’t know why it’s hard to just have a break speed app near by. The first time is a warning and then the break speed gets monitored and a foul called if you go below it. seems simple.

As far as the op’s question a traditional 9 ball break with the magic rack isn’t a skill set. I’m just a good amateur and I can drop the wing ball just about every time. I don’t use a magic rack at home because I don’t think it gives me an honest assessment of my game.

 

[skogstokig]

This guy was following all of the WNT Rules, and the Ref, and his opponent was still giving him a hard time, the entire match, and the Ref eventually calling a foul on him, when he did nothing wrong, and did everything as the rules restricted of him.

in that particular break he was breaking thin, not soft, so the ref was wrong. capito is known as a soft breaker tho, as are the spaniards and a bunch other players on the tour.

 

[Sheldon]

All the Pro tournaments cured the wing ball issue by going to 4 1/4'' pockets..., yes the wing ball still goes, but few players are making multiple balls and even fewer are running out, there are very few big packages.

They are down to 4" pockets now.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

Maybe a game using "pills" in a bottle could help "randomize" the break.

After the break, pills corresponding to the numbers of the balls remaining on the table are placed in the pill bottle and shaken up.

For example, the 1 ball is made on the break and balls 2 through 9 remain on the table, so pills 2 through 9 are placed in the bottle and shaken and then a pill is extracted.

Whatever number the extracted pill is, that number ball swaps places on the table with the lowest number ball on the table, which in this case is the 2 ball.

If the number 2 pill was extracted, the 2 ball would remain in its current place on the table.

Using this method, the breaker would never know where the lowest numbered ball would be positioned on the table after the break.

There would be no need to use the pills if there was a dry break.

Way off topic, but I used to play in a ring game, called Pill Pool, where each player would shake that pill bottle up, and randomly get a number out of it, 1 out of 9 numbers (or however many balls you wanted to use, up to 15, I guess), and whatever number we got out was our money ball. Lol, that was such a fun and exciting game. Nobody knew what the other players money ball was. Oh, also, we played ring game rules, where if you fouled, like not getting a rail after contact with the object ball, you could make the player behind you shoot again, where the cue ball lies, or you can shoot it where it lies.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

in that particular break he was breaking thin, not soft, so the ref was wrong. capito is known as a soft breaker tho, as are the spaniards and a bunch other players on the tour.

He was following the restrictive rules though, right? Breaking within the box, and getting at least 3 balls past the spot. Sorry, I actually do not know what all the WNT rules are, for breaking, and too lazy to look them up, lol. That youtuber seems to think he did nothing against the rules though.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

Because he’s a douche that was soft breaking and had been warned earlier. then when he got a foul called on him he actually didn’t soft break he just hit it bad . I don’t know why it’s hard to just have a break speed app near by. The first time is a warning and then the break speed gets monitored and a foul called if you go below it. seems simple.

As far as the op’s question a traditional 9 ball break with the magic rack isn’t a skill set. I’m just a good amateur and I can drop the wing ball just about every time. I don’t use a magic rack at home because I don’t think it gives me an honest assessment of my game.

What is considered a Soft Break though? Is that up to the Ref to decide? If he gets a certain amount of balls, up table (or whatever the rules say needs to be done), then why is it still considered a soft break? I am just trying to understand. Is Soft Breaking all based on opinion? Why not just have set rules, which none are based on opinion alone?