WPBA Fine of $2,000

[SA96]

If WPBA are investing and developing young female players, it doesn't seem fair that another promoter can then use them without paying a sanctioning fee.

I think the WNT need to take a similar policy with Ultimate Pool.

We don't need crappy bar box pool in the USA.

We need more 9ft players with proper strokes, so we can compete and win Mosconi.

 

[skogstokig]

If WPBA are investing and developing young female players, it doesn't seem fair that another promoter can then use them without paying a sanctioning fee.

I think the WNT need to take a similar policy with Ultimate Pool.

We don't need crappy bar box pool in the USA.

We need more 9ft players with proper strokes, so we can compete and win Mosconi.

ok. i didn't know that WPBA had a junior program and invested in and developed sofia mast..

if true i have a bigger understanding for their rule, but it's still too draconic imo. maybe the rule should be they must have WPBA beside their name when competing in ultimate pool, or something like that. i see all stick no carrot here

 

[skor]

In any sport, a pro athlete can not participate in amateur league or tournament.

but in this case, allowing them to play in junior, men and mix doubles makes no sense.
I do feel that there are politics and power struggles in the background, too bad that the players literally pay the price.

 

[336Robin]

There's some news circulating on Facebook that Sofia Mast was fined $2,000 by the WPBA for competing in the Ultimate USA Pool event earlier this year. It was stated that her sponsors (Olhausen and Pechauer) paid the fine, but they are currently in negotiations with WPBA to have the funds returned. I guess appealing the fine.

Kind of sad to learn this. Maybe that is what prompted Sofia announce that she wanted to go to culinary school, which I think is a good idea. She can still shoot pool, but culinary school will give her a skill set outside of pool.

I've had the pleasure of working in toxic organizations in my career and this is exactly the sort of thing that toxic
controllers who (think) they have a self-interest to protect when in fact they probably don't.

It's sad on all levels and she is 17 yr. old child unable to enter a professional contract.
It's bad press and I hope it hurts them enough for them to understand they aren't anything without the players.

If Pool is entertainment and entertainment is where Advertising goes on, what do they think they just did to themselves
within the Pool world that operates on social media and forums?

I think they Suck in this regard and without a fairer response just keep proving it.

 

[Badpenguin]

I'm not hearing what the WPBA contract provides the Elite players. This sounds terrible, but I'm not hearing the full story here, unless I just missed something.

 

[skor]

.It's sad on all levels and she is 17 yr. old child unable to enter a professional contract.
It's bad press and I hope it hurts them enough for them to understand they aren't anything without the players.

Than maybe the WPBA shouldn’t allow minors playing in their events either.

 

[iusedtoberich]

There is nothing new here, been happening for decades. In the WPBA, the WPA, Carom (forgot its acronym). Men and Women. The absolute biggest stars were banned in each discipline. Jasmin was banned. Caudron was banned. Half the male pro's were banned during the latest WPA fiasco 2 years ago. No one is immune. Nothing will ever change on this, no matter how many FB posts are made about Sofia.

It's the worst part of our sport, IMO. The organizations trying to strong arm the talent. For no logical reason when each arm of the sport has less economic opportunities than working at McDonalds except for the top 5 players. Its communism for cue sports.

 

[iusedtoberich]

What I don't understand is when the boards of these alphabet organizations change every decade or so, and are presumably filled with former players, why don't the new board members strike down all these non-compete rules? If I was a player and was on the board, that's the first thing I'd want gone.

 

[336Robin]

Here is what I found googling WPBA board of Directors. Doesn't look like the players
are all that well represented here in number. That might be part of the problem.

 

[muskyed]

Robin brought up a good point. As a minor, yes she can sign a contract, but it is legally unenforceable. The minor has the ability to to honor or not that contract.
Also another thing, I'm not sure the WPBA has anything to do with investing in and developing young players. I could be wrong on that, but I haven't heard of anything they actually do to develop them. Letting them play in their tournaments isn't considered them helping to develop.

 

[sjm]

There's some news circulating on Facebook that Sofia Mast was fined $2,000 by the WPBA for competing in the Ultimate USA Pool event earlier this year. It was stated that her sponsors (Olhausen and Pechauer) paid the fine, but they are currently in negotiations with WPBA to have the funds returned. I guess appealing the fine.

Kind of sad to learn this. Maybe that is what prompted Sofia announce that she wanted to go to culinary school, which I think is a good idea. She can still shoot pool, but culinary school will give her a skill set outside of pool.

Yes, but the most important fact here has not been shared. Did Sofia participate in an event that ran concurrent to a WPBA event? If so, then her choice to play Ultimate Pool was a big deal. If not, then I understand where everyone is coming from, and the fine seems a bit odd and the policy very restrictive.

I must open with the fact that my knowledge on this matter may not be current. That said, I have some familiarity with and have seen some of the WPBA contracts of yesteryear.

The contracts I've seen only restricted players from playing in other events that ran concurrent to a WPBA event. Actually, that restriction made perfect sense, as when the WPBA sits down with a potential venue sponsor, it seeks a sanctioning fee from that venue sponsor and that venue sponsor, before agreeing to pay the sanctioning fee will, typically require that each WPBA player under contract will either play in the sponsor's event or, at least, not play in any other concurrent event. Without such a pledge, venue sponsors are much harder to line up. Hence, the WPBA player contract helps the WPBA to make business deals.

... and let's make no mistake about it, Sofia Mast is elite in women's pro pool, with multiple top 5 finishes in sanctioned world championships.

About fifteen years ago, Jasmin Ouschan played in the World 10ball, even though it coincided with a WPBA event, and she was fined, because her player contract was breached. Ironically, she won the very next WPBA event in which she played.

WPBA prize funds have skyrocketed in the past few years, but the bottom line is that the players who sign the WPBA contract have negotiating power and should be mindful of what they agree to for the 2027 player contract. The WPBA is now a 50 year old tour and has lasted this long due to generally capable management. I am sure they will all work this out.

 

[336Robin]

Yes, but the most important fact here has not been shared. Did Sofia participate in an event that ran concurrent to a WPBA event? If so, then her choice to play Ultimate Pool was a big deal. If not, then I understand where everyone is coming from, and the fine seems a bit odd and the policy very restrictive.

I must open with the fact that my knowledge on this matter may not be current. That said, I have some familiarity with and have seen some of the WPBA contracts of yesteryear.

The contracts I've seen only restricted players from playing in other events that ran concurrent to a WPBA event. Actually, that restriction made perfect sense, as when the WPBA sits down with a potential venue sponsor, it seeks a sanctioning fee from that venue sponsor and that venue sponsor, before agreeing to pay the sanctioning fee will, typically require that each WPBA player under contract will either play in the sponsor's event or, at least, not play in any other concurrent event. Without such a pledge, venue sponsors are much harder to line up. Hence, the WPBA player contract helps the WPBA to make business deals.

... and let's make no mistake about it, Sofia Mast is elite in women's pro pool, with multiple top 5 finishes in sanctioned world championships.

About fifteen years ago, Jasmin Ouschan played in the World 10ball, even though it coincided with a WPBA event, and she was fined, because her player contract was breached. Ironically, she won the very next WPBA event in which she played.

WPBA prize funds have skyrocketed in the past few years, but the bottom line is that the players who sign the WPBA contract have negotiating power and should be mindful of what they agree to for the 2027 player contract. The WPBA is now a 50 year old tour and has lasted this long due to generally capable management. I am sure they will all work this out.

Logistics matter in concurrency.

Does concurrent mean same weekend or does it take into account location and travel expenses for the player.

While the WPBA does whatever it does to get sponsors, it doesn't have the players on payroll from what I remember.

So if a player can drive to an event close to where they are, shouldn't they be able to play it?

So the Friday night tournament at the local room is off limits when the player is in the business to make money for
their next event. I see some problems here with the requirements if this is the case because now it forces them into
the gambling scene to make funds and is that the reputation we want with the public?

 

[JAM]

Yes, but the most important fact here has not been shared . . . .

I shared what I read on Facebook. I did not delve into the ins and outs of when, where, what, how, and why. I knew this topic would be met with mixed opinions, hypotheses of what may have happened, and quite frankly, I did want to be a part of that back-and-forth. Please don't kill the messenger.

 

[sjm]

I shared what I read on Facebook. I did not delve into the ins and outs of when, where, what, how, and why. I knew this topic would be met with mixed opinions, hypotheses of what may have happened, and quite frankly, I did want to be a part of that back-and-forth. Please don't kill the messenger.

Of course. You shared what you know. I just noted that the case is not easily judged in the absence of some of the supporting detail.

 

[sjm]

Logistics matter in concurrency.

No, they don't. Events are either concurrent or they are not.

Does concurrent mean same weekend or does it take into account location and travel expenses for the player.

It means that there is at least one day on which both of the events are being contested simultaneously.

While the WPBA does whatever it does to get sponsors, it doesn't have the players on payroll from what I remember.

So if a player can drive to an event close to where they are, shouldn't they be able to play it?

In almost all cases, they are permitted, but if it means skipping a sanctioned WPBA event, probably not. Read paragraph two in post 7. WPBA pros can play in most events, but a women's only event that is not WPA sanctioned (such as the Women's Ultimate Pool event) is an exception, possibly irrespective of concurrency.

So the Friday night tournament at the local room is off limits when the player is in the business to make money for
their next event. I see some problems here with the requirements if this is the case because now it forces them into
the gambling scene to make funds and is that the reputation we want with the public?

Again, read post 7.

 

[nmh2008]

... and let's make no mistake about it, Sofia Mast is elite in women's pro pool, with multiple top 5 finishes in sanctioned world championships.

I agree yet she's grossed, what, $70K in the last 3 years?

 

[Xenon256]

If concurrent I totally get it. I feel this so short sited by the WBPA if it is not concurrent. The best thing you can do is get more eyes on the players and entice people to come watch your events. There are even cross promotion options that help both and grow pool. I really feel a lot of the pool organizations don't understand how to grow a business.

 

[336Robin]

If concurrent I totally get it. I feel this so short sited by the WBPA if it is not concurrent. The best thing you can do is get more eyes on the players and entice people to come watch your events. There are even cross promotion options that help both and grow pool. I really feel a lot of the pool organizations don't understand how to grow a business.

I've had a few and unless someone has to make a business work, they generally don't understand it when they do things that get in the way....contract or not. Nothing says contracts can't be in their own bad interests which I think is part of the problem. Strictly my opinion.

 

[decent dennis]

Yes, but the most important fact here has not been shared. Did Sofia participate in an event that ran concurrent to a WPBA event? If so, then her choice to play Ultimate Pool was a big deal. If not, then I understand where everyone is coming from, and the fine seems a bit odd and the policy very restrictive.

I must open with the fact that my knowledge on this matter may not be current. That said, I have some familiarity with and have seen some of the WPBA contracts of yesteryear.

The contracts I've seen only restricted players from playing in other events that ran concurrent to a WPBA event. Actually, that restriction made perfect sense, as when the WPBA sits down with a potential venue sponsor, it seeks a sanctioning fee from that venue sponsor and that venue sponsor, before agreeing to pay the sanctioning fee will, typically require that each WPBA player under contract will either play in the sponsor's event or, at least, not play in any other concurrent event. Without such a pledge, venue sponsors are much harder to line up. Hence, the WPBA player contract helps the WPBA to make business deals.

... and let's make no mistake about it, Sofia Mast is elite in women's pro pool, with multiple top 5 finishes in sanctioned world championships.

About fifteen years ago, Jasmin Ouschan played in the World 10ball, even though it coincided with a WPBA event, and she was fined, because her player contract was breached. Ironically, she won the very next WPBA event in which she played.

WPBA prize funds have skyrocketed in the past few years, but the bottom line is that the players who sign the WPBA contract have negotiating power and should be mindful of what they agree to for the 2027 player contract. The WPBA is now a 50 year old tour and has lasted this long due to generally capable management. I am sure they will all work this out.

Do the women have to wait a month to get paid also?

 

[maha]

the owners set the rules the participants do not. they only can negotiate the deal that they sign. if they cant get the deal they want they dont have to sign on.

if they think they are so valuable to the sport individually then they can start their own associations and run their own tournaments.

if you ran a big company would you let your workers on their time off or weekends work for your competition? or a company that could in time be competition.