Have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

V

vintagecollectibles831

Well-known member
Curious, have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

I always hated playing on a Valley with a mud cue ball.

Really felt that I had to just use Center ball, or follow on any shot. Very hard, to impossible to draw that cue ball back. Could maybe draw it back a few inches, depending on the cue ball.

Were some cue balls heavier then others? They seemed to get from bad, to really bad at times.

And, why do bar room owners not care to ever replace the cue ball, on the single Valley table, that they usually had. Maybe 1 or 2 tables at the most.

I paid $30 awhile back for a good (at least I thought it was good) Magnetic coin op table cue ball, but the thing got stuck in this one Valley that I used it on, and the bar owner told me that he had to pay someone to get it back out, so it never got returned back to me, lol.

Going way off topic, I have been thinking of trying to find another good Magnetic cue ball, but I really have no idea if one might get stuck in a table again.

Going off topic again, but I have always had really bad social anxiety, and find it very hard to approach strangers, to ask to shoot some, so the thing I found most welcoming in the past, were Challenge tables, where you put your quarters on the rail, and wait in line to play the winner, when it is your turn. Those do not really seem to exist anymore, but if I ever could find one, it would be nice to have a good cue ball, that would work on the table. I know, that probably seems dumb, because I should have to use whatever old nasty, grimy, mud ball, that all the other players are using, lol. I just find regular pool halls to be very lonely places, if I do not know anyone. I lived in New Orleans (for example) for 5 years, and 1 single pool player befriended me during that entire time. Also, I always hated leagues, so I never had any interest in joining a league.

Anyways, getting back on topic, lol. I never really seen any great players playing with the Mud ball, because in my experience, it was just a bunch of drunk bangers, at the bar, that used those nasty old mud balls. I always hated them though.

Just makes me wonder about players who were really good with the heavy mud cue ball, and how they went about being able to play good with one. I assume by just getting really good at playing with Center cue ball (no english), and Follow through shots only.
 
straightline said:
Al Romero comes to mind instantly. Keith Mcready too and then a slew of road guys who I wouldn't even recognize their name.
The big ball was fun to watch. The thing is practically a billiard ball and many chose to go with the mass and bang it around. It's a master class in ball control.
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Don't confuse the big ball with the mud ball, totally different animals. The mud ball was a standard size cb but with magnetic particles mixed in the ball. They played like a big heavy wad of gum. You had to play stop/follow with maybe short draw shots. Tulsa barbox wizard Fat Randy was one of the best with that cb. Matlock told me that Randy, in his prime, could gin it with that mud rock like few others. This cb was very common in the Midwest as the big ball faded away. Lot of really good mudball players 'cause it was so common.
 
garczar said:
Don't confuse the big ball with the mud ball, totally different animals. The mud ball was a standard size cb but with magnetic particles mixed in the ball. They played like a big heavy wad of gum. You had to play stop/follow with maybe short draw shots. Tulsa barbox wizard Fat Randy was one of the best with that cb. Matlock told me that Randy, in his prime, could gin it with that mud rock like few others. This cb was very common in the Midwest as the big ball faded away. Lot of really good mudball players 'cause it was so common.
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Oh the small ball with the slug in it? Yuk that thing doesn't even roll straight. In fact guaranteed roll off. I thought Aramith introduced the first ferrous ball. (?) Those play good. That's all they have on non optical tables now.
 
big balls and small balls depending on how the table returned the cue ball what they used..

i loved it as i never use draw/ or only a tiny amount and make it look difficult when gambling with an unknown.
as that is the tip off of how good you are.
the big ball was better as most decenet players had trouble figuring where to hit the object ball in their vision.

the small ball good players could draw it fine, as the tables were smaller so didnt have to move the cue ball as much.
 
straightline said:
Oh the small ball with the slug in it? Yuk that thing doesn't even roll straight. In fact guaranteed roll off. I thought Aramith introduced the first ferrous ball. (?) Those play good. That's all they have on non optical tables now.
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could have been. all i know it was regular size but heavier. i think some called it a cats-eye cb. just dead feeling. hard to draw. https://www.valley-dynamoparts.com/docs/SVC_Cue_Ball.pdf
 
The good players adjust. I’m not saying I’m a good player but I thought about getting a set of balls that were stock Valley balls. I didn’t. Went to VNEA for the first time last spring. It is a great time. You know what? The Valley tables aren’t identical but they play fine. You go down there and hit some balls and adjust. You will play about like you play. Your opponent will play like they play. You will win some, lose some and probably won’t lose a match because someone had more experience with the particular cue ball. Maybe you will at the highest level, but at that level the players…..adjust. The cue ball plays different from a measles ball which is different from a red circle. I thought some more about getting a set of balls or a magnetic cue ball. I haven’t. Why? Because I will go down there and adjust. It won’t be like my table in my basement with Simonis and my light and my Aramith pros. So what? If I work on my stroke I can draw the magnetic ball. Some bad sets of balls in bars I don’t even want to adjust to because they may not be balanced. Some sets in a recent league I played in were really bad.

Saw SVB playing challenge matches on a Valley with stock balls. I didn’t wait in line, step up etc…. He can adjust to that cue ball. If he plays a WNT event he adjusts. Predator event? He adjusts. Guess what? He plays really good on an unfamiliar table with imperfect lighting and stock balls…

I guess what I am getting at is it is great to have an appreciation for good equipment. We should want good equipment everywhere. But when it comes to competing, you have to get out of your own head and compete. Maybe the table is playing super short because of humidity. Maybe the balls suck. Go play.

I really appreciate your openness about social anxiety and such. I am trying to be positive here, not critical. I think you might have a lot of fun if you found a BCA or VNEA league and played enough to go to Las Vegas. Just play singles maybe. I am not the most social person, the most enthusiastic league player etc.., But if you loosen up a little you will meet some people you like, have some fun, and be forced to get out of your head and your house. That can be a good thing. And go play on some lousy equipment and use Master chalk. You will survive.
 
garczar said:
Don't confuse the big ball with the mud ball, totally different animals. The mud ball was a standard size cb but with magnetic particles mixed in the ball. They played like a big heavy wad of gum. You had to play stop/follow with maybe short draw shots. Tulsa barbox wizard Fat Randy was one of the best with that cb. Matlock told me that Randy, in his prime, could gin it with that mud rock like few others. This cb was very common in the Midwest as the big ball faded away. Lot of really good mudball players 'cause it was so common.
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Yeah, I am speaking of the heavy normal sized cue ball, not the oversized one. At least, the mud balls that I always seen looked very normal size to me.
 
garczar said:
could have been. all i know it was regular size but heavier. i think some called it a cats-eye cb. just dead feeling. hard to draw. https://www.valley-dynamoparts.com/docs/SVC_Cue_Ball.pdf
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Thanks for the link, I haven’t seen that. When I started on bar tables it was the big cueball. Then I think it was the spring ones. I don’t recall the heavy mud ball. But I am talking ‘80’s and don’t have the bar box experience that many have. Had occasion to play on a vintage bar box last year in Oregon. Well maintained, not a Valley, but had the oversized ball. Hadn’t seen one in forever. Not the ideal solution, but played better than one I played with in recent weeks that wasn’t balanced.
 
he old mud balls were regular balls made of clay and or whatever back in the day.
the bars mostly had a big cue ball which also heavier would follow the rail down the table and come out the slot at the break side.

the small ball which wasnt necessarily small but weighed more with magnets in it. so when pocketed would get pulled aside on the rail and come out at the break side while all the other balls followed the rail into the locked side of the table waiting for another quarter.

both balls were very hard to draw because of weight and of course the slow thick cloth on cheap humid wet bar tables.
 
bakersfield bob was the best as he wasnt the same speed as the top players mentioned that played super bar speed. he was good but more of a very good shortstop but on the bar table few could beat him.

but jay could clock him the best as he hung out some at jay's pool room in bakersfield ca.
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
Curious, have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

I always hated playing on a Valley with a mud cue ball.

Really felt that I had to just use Center ball, or follow on any shot. Very hard, to impossible to draw that cue ball back. Could maybe draw it back a few inches, depending on the cue ball.

Were some cue balls heavier then others? They seemed to get from bad, to really bad at times.

And, why do bar room owners not care to ever replace the cue ball, on the single Valley table, that they usually had. Maybe 1 or 2 tables at the most.

I paid $30 awhile back for a good (at least I thought it was good) Magnetic coin op table cue ball, but the thing got stuck in this one Valley that I used it on, and the bar owner told me that he had to pay someone to get it back out, so it never got returned back to me, lol.

Going way off topic, I have been thinking of trying to find another good Magnetic cue ball, but I really have no idea if one might get stuck in a table again.

Going off topic again, but I have always had really bad social anxiety, and find it very hard to approach strangers, to ask to shoot some, so the thing I found most welcoming in the past, were Challenge tables, where you put your quarters on the rail, and wait in line to play the winner, when it is your turn. Those do not really seem to exist anymore, but if I ever could find one, it would be nice to have a good cue ball, that would work on the table. I know, that probably seems dumb, because I should have to use whatever old nasty, grimy, mud ball, that all the other players are using, lol. I just find regular pool halls to be very lonely places, if I do not know anyone. I lived in New Orleans (for example) for 5 years, and 1 single pool player befriended me during that entire time. Also, I always hated leagues, so I never had any interest in joining a league.

Anyways, getting back on topic, lol. I never really seen any great players playing with the Mud ball, because in my experience, it was just a bunch of drunk bangers, at the bar, that used those nasty old mud balls. I always hated them though.

Just makes me wonder about players who were really good with the heavy mud cue ball, and how they went about being able to play good with one. I assume by just getting really good at playing with Center cue ball (no english), and Follow through shots only.
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Pretty much. Park your ass mid table, park and poke.
Never draw the rock or guys pull their quarters.
If you're playing on the road, playing mud ball is a necessity.
Hu was pretty damn good at rolling the rock around.
So was Massey.
 
Back in the ’70s, all the bars in my neck of the woods had big balls on the coin-operated pool tables. 25 cents a game. Ah, those were the days. I actually learned to play pool with the big cue ball.

Keith McCready mastered the art of mudball, big balls, red dot, blue dot, and polka dot cue balls, and he’s certainly not a one-trick pony. He can play all games and adjust to equipment faster than most. That’s a skill that was mandatory for road warriors during pool's golden years. You learn to play whatever is in front of you, good, bad, or downright ugly.

I remember a Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour tournament at Ultimate Billiards in Berlin, Connecticut, where the brand-new tables had the fastest cloth ever, Gorina Basault. You barely tapped the balls, and they rolled forever, like they were on ice. Everybody struggled with it. Everybody except Ronnie Alcano and Keith.

And they end up, no surprise, in the finals. The side bets were mounting, and most of the money was on Ronnie. I was one very Nervous Nellie when the race to 9 began, but Keith went 9–0 in less than 15 minutes. It was the fastest race-to-9 final I’ve ever seen in my life. And if they’d been playing with mudballs, I think Keith and Ronnie still would have been in that final. Ronnie went on to win the World Pool Championship in Philippines versus Ralf Souquet a few years later.

Ronnie and Keith both had the ability to adjust quickly to unfamiliar equipment, and it is a skill set in pool. When Keith wakes up, I'll ask him for a few tips on how to play with the mudball. Keith likes to use english, and his cue of choice is a wood shaft, so his advice might be outdated, but you never know. Stay tuned!

Here’s Keith and Ronnie with their beautiful trophies, presented by Ultimate Billiards owner Pete Genovese, who was a pretty darn good player himself!

Keith and Ronnie Alcano Joss Berlin.jpg
 
JAM said:
Back in the ’70s, all the bars in my neck of the woods had big balls on the coin-operated pool tables. 25 cents a game. Ah, those were the days. I actually learned to play pool with the big cue ball.

Keith McCready mastered the art of mudball, big balls, red dot, blue dot, and polka dot cue balls, and he’s certainly not a one-trick pony. He can play all games and adjust to equipment faster than most. That’s a skill that was mandatory for road warriors during pool's golden years. You learn to play whatever is in front of you, good, bad, or downright ugly.

I remember a Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour tournament at Ultimate Billiards in Berlin, Connecticut, where the brand-new tables had the fastest cloth ever, Gorina Basault. You barely tapped the balls, and they rolled forever, like they were on ice. Everybody struggled with it. Everybody except Ronnie Alcano and Keith.

And they end up, no surprise, in the finals. The side bets were mounting, and most of the money was on Ronnie. I was one very Nervous Nellie when the race to 9 began, but Keith went 9–0 in less than 15 minutes. It was the fastest race-to-9 final I’ve ever seen in my life. And if they’d been playing with mudballs, I think Keith and Ronnie still would have been in that final. Ronnie went on to win the World Pool Championship in Philippines versus Ralf Souquet a few years later.

Ronnie and Keith both had the ability to adjust quickly to unfamiliar equipment, and it is a skill set in pool. When Keith wakes up, I'll ask him for a few tips on how to play with the mudball. Keith likes to use english, and his cue of choice is a wood shaft, so his advice might be outdated, but you never know. Stay tuned!

Here’s Keith and Ronnie with their beautiful trophies, presented by Ultimate Billiards owner Pete Genovese, who was a pretty darn good player himself!

View attachment 928956
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Jam, still 25 cents a game at my favorite corner bar by our summer house in Door County Wis.
Wife and I played a dozen or so games there Saturday afternoon. Ya the table is dirty, balls terrible, but it is what it is and we have fun there and thats all that matters.
Not just the pool table that's inexpensive there, so is there food.
Wife had chicken tenders and a bloodymary, I had a 1/2 lb cheeseburger with fries and 3 16 oz beers, $24. This is in the biggest tourist area of the state. It's nothing to have 40-50 people in there drinking and eating and it's not a big place. Tap 16 Oz beers $1.50-$2 depending on beer, mixed drinks $3.50
1000018538.jpg
 
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