Have you ever known any players who played really good with the heavy (mud) cue ball, that you see on so many Valley coin op tables?

muskyed said:
Jam, still 25 cents a game at my favorite corner bar by our summer house in Door County Wis.
Wife and I played a dozen or so games there Saturday afternoon. Ya the table is dirty, balls terrible, but it is what it is and we have fun there and thats all that matters.
Not just the pool table that's inexpensive there, so is there food.
Wife had chicken tenders and a bloodymary, I had a 1/2 lb cheeseburger with fries and 3 16 oz beers, $24. This is in the biggest tourist area of the state. It's nothing to have 40-50 people in there drinking and eating and it's not a big place. Tap 16 Oz beers $1.50-$2 depending on beer, mixed drinks $3.50
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My kind of place. That looks exactly like the table where I used to play for 25 cents a game. Love this!
 
maha said:
bakersfield bob was the best as he wasnt the same speed as the top players mentioned that played super bar speed. he was good but more of a very good shortstop but on the bar table few could beat him.

but jay could clock him the best as he hung out some at jay's pool room in bakersfield ca.
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You're right. On the 9' table Bobby and I played pretty even. On a bar table he jumped up two speeds.
 
JAM said:
Back in the ’70s, all the bars in my neck of the woods had big balls on the coin-operated pool tables. 25 cents a game. Ah, those were the days. I actually learned to play pool with the big cue ball.

Keith McCready mastered the art of mudball, big balls, red dot, blue dot, and polka dot cue balls, and he’s certainly not a one-trick pony. He can play all games and adjust to equipment faster than most. That’s a skill that was mandatory for road warriors during pool's golden years. You learn to play whatever is in front of you, good, bad, or downright ugly.

I remember a Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour tournament at Ultimate Billiards in Berlin, Connecticut, where the brand-new tables had the fastest cloth ever, Gorina Basault. You barely tapped the balls, and they rolled forever, like they were on ice. Everybody struggled with it. Everybody except Ronnie Alcano and Keith.

And they end up, no surprise, in the finals. The side bets were mounting, and most of the money was on Ronnie. I was one very Nervous Nellie when the race to 9 began, but Keith went 9–0 in less than 15 minutes. It was the fastest race-to-9 final I’ve ever seen in my life. And if they’d been playing with mudballs, I think Keith and Ronnie still would have been in that final. Ronnie went on to win the World Pool Championship in Philippines versus Ralf Souquet a few years later.

Ronnie and Keith both had the ability to adjust quickly to unfamiliar equipment, and it is a skill set in pool. When Keith wakes up, I'll ask him for a few tips on how to play with the mudball. Keith likes to use english, and his cue of choice is a wood shaft, so his advice might be outdated, but you never know. Stay tuned!

Here’s Keith and Ronnie with their beautiful trophies, presented by Ultimate Billiards owner Pete Genovese, who was a pretty darn good player himself!

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Right on! Keith could play on the floor if he had to.
 
jay helfert said:
John was a top speed player on any table, any balls, back then. Only champions need apply!
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John used to travel with this bug-eyed cat named Mike Hyland. He played 'maybe' the last-2 under Shuput. They cut a swath through the midwest believe me. Matlock was about the only guy to fade their onslaught but even then Dave had to come with it to win.
 
jay helfert said:
Is Ronnie still alive? I liked him.
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I was wondering the same thing. I haven't seen him for a long time. He had a house in Sebastian Fl right near the beach. He was always a little sick with asthma puffing on that thing every few minutes.

He was in prison for 5 years in the 90s and came out looking healthier then I ever saw him. Probably got some medical treatment he had been lacking for years. I liked him a lot. Guessing he would be in his early 80s.
 
JAM said:
Back in the ’70s, all the bars in my neck of the woods had big balls on the coin-operated pool tables. 25 cents a game. Ah, those were the days. I actually learned to play pool with the big cue ball.

Keith McCready mastered the art of mudball, big balls, red dot, blue dot, and polka dot cue balls, and he’s certainly not a one-trick pony. He can play all games and adjust to equipment faster than most. That’s a skill that was mandatory for road warriors during pool's golden years. You learn to play whatever is in front of you, good, bad, or downright ugly.

I remember a Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour tournament at Ultimate Billiards in Berlin, Connecticut, where the brand-new tables had the fastest cloth ever, Gorina Basault. You barely tapped the balls, and they rolled forever, like they were on ice. Everybody struggled with it. Everybody except Ronnie Alcano and Keith.

And they end up, no surprise, in the finals. The side bets were mounting, and most of the money was on Ronnie. I was one very Nervous Nellie when the race to 9 began, but Keith went 9–0 in less than 15 minutes. It was the fastest race-to-9 final I’ve ever seen in my life. And if they’d been playing with mudballs, I think Keith and Ronnie still would have been in that final. Ronnie went on to win the World Pool Championship in Philippines versus Ralf Souquet a few years later.

Ronnie and Keith both had the ability to adjust quickly to unfamiliar equipment, and it is a skill set in pool. When Keith wakes up, I'll ask him for a few tips on how to play with the mudball. Keith likes to use english, and his cue of choice is a wood shaft, so his advice might be outdated, but you never know. Stay tuned!

Here’s Keith and Ronnie with their beautiful trophies, presented by Ultimate Billiards owner Pete Genovese, who was a pretty darn good player himself!

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Amazing story. That is so cool. I guess, being from the Philippines, a lot of those guys are probably really good at adjusting to any conditions too. Very cool picture.
 
Keith McCready's comments about mud ball transcribed by me:

McCREADY: First of all, a mud ball is different than a big cue ball. It's smaller, but heavier than a regulation cue ball, the way the blue dots used to be.

Myself, I didn't like playing with mud balls, not that I couldn't play with them. They will jump off the object balls with the type of english that I'm not looking for. When you go to use cue-tip high lefts, cue-tip high centers, and cue-tip high rights, the mud ball deflects off the object ball. It's hard to put a smooth stroke on it.

Your draw shots and your stop shots, you can do that with a mud ball, but any time you're going off angle, it's different.

To me with the mud balls, I go off my balance point where I hold the cue farther back with my right hand, long stroking, a little bit more longer of a stroke. When you go to follow balls off the rail with the mud ball, it's difficult, especially if you've got to come back down table and you're straight in, a little bit off angle, left or right, either way, where you have to put a stroke on it.

My best advice is to practice your longer strokes with the cue-tip highs, left, right, and center. When you go to draw the ball, say you're a little off angle and you have to draw and then hit the rail and then suck the mud ball back, there's where your longer stroke will come into play, because holding the cue stick a normal way and you go to draw that mud ball, it won't go nowhere. You got to put more of a power stroke on your draw shots And remember, you're farther back off your balance point when you practice the drills.

Back when I played, we had Valleys, but the Irving K's were more difficult to play on with a mud ball.
 
You know, there were players that were really super on the bar tables. But many players, like my self who for a while played only on bar tables with the big ball were tough to beat. Especially by the uninitiated player no matter who they were.
I had Mike Segel stuck for hours and made Richie Ambrose quit.

Some of the places I used to play the tables were terrible often without even a light directly over the table. These guys would come in thinking there were suckers in there and actually could not win.
Tony Howard (one eyed Tony) was one of the best I saw adapt. He played great right out of the box.
 
muskyed said:
Jam, still 25 cents a game at my favorite corner bar by our summer house in Door County Wis.
Wife and I played a dozen or so games there Saturday afternoon. Ya the table is dirty, balls terrible, but it is what it is and we have fun there and thats all that matters.
Not just the pool table that's inexpensive there, so is there food.
Wife had chicken tenders and a bloodymary, I had a 1/2 lb cheeseburger with fries and 3 16 oz beers, $24. This is in the biggest tourist area of the state. It's nothing to have 40-50 people in there drinking and eating and it's not a big place. Tap 16 Oz beers $1.50-$2 depending on beer, mixed drinks $3.50
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I'm moving to Wisconsin. 😁
 
maha said:
pretty much rod curry and dave mattlock were the two best bar tables players ever, considering their full table speeds.
ill throw bakersfield bob into that crew.

sure a few top players that played both, could sometimes beat them but never anyone that they didnt know that walked into it.
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Matlock.
 
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