Where is the rule banning the "lift stroke" and the "sideways stroke" for close balls?

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The rule stating the stroke must explicitly be a "forward stroke". Not those illegal for 30 year strokes where you lay your cue on the table and lift the tip straight up (or sideways) grazing the CB.

I just searched the latest WPA rules and I can't find the clause. Would someone help me find it? I had an experienced player try to use it on me and want to show it to him for next time.

2025 rules link: https://wpapool.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/2026.01.02-WPA-Rules.pdf
 
Not sure that I understand what stroke are you talking about, is there a video showing it?
I haven’t realized that there is an illegal stroke as long as there is no foul like double hit or scooping or contacting the cb with other parts of the cue but the tip
 
skor said:
Not sure that I understand what stroke are you talking about, is there a video showing it?
I haven’t realized that there is an illegal stroke as long as there is no foul like double hit or scooping or contacting the cb with other parts of the cue but the tip
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you can't move the tip sideways or vertically to ensure a "hit".

this mostly comes up in one pocket though, and most of the times it's a deliberate foul anyway.. so what's the point really? if you knew the rule it's unsportsmanlike conduct, if not it's just a foul?
 
skogstokig said:
you can't move the tip sideways or vertically to ensure a "hit".

this mostly comes up in one pocket though, and most of the times it's a deliberate foul anyway.. so what's the point really? if you knew the rule it's unsportsmanlike conduct, if not it's just a foul?
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So basically hitting the cue ball with the sides of the tip is illegal.
In the past there was a rule about “foul by miscue” that this type of stroke may fall under it.
This rule has been removed as unintentional miscue is not a foul anymore.
So I guess we are left with unsportsmanlike conduct.
 
It’s the shot where you lay the stick on the table, with the tip slightly under the curve of the CB. No bridge or stroke hand on the stick. Then you walk around to the tip end of the stick, and lift the tip upwards, and the stick pivots on its butt cap still resting on the table. The tip barely grazes the CB. There is also a variation where you can pivot sideways instead of upwards.

You all know the shot. It’s been banned at least 25 years.

I’m trying to find it in print.
 
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freds said:
2.19 SHOT A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue-ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue-stick.
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Yeah I saw that, and that’s the only place I saw something close. Is that all there is? I could have sworn there was something more substantial explicitly banning the “lift stroke”?
 
Oh right, you said that. Well yes there is, but it's in the CSI / BCA rules:

1-18 Legal Stroke
You must use a legal stroke. Any lifting, sideways, or other brushing motion of the cue,
such that the force that propels the cue ball does not primarily result from a forward
motion of the cue as defined under “Legal Stroke”, is a foul (see Diagram 4)

 
iusedtoberich said:
...
I just searched the latest WPA rules and I can't find the clause. Would someone help me find it? ...
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It is not explicitly called out.

A stroke is defined. The lift shot is not a stroke.

Moving the cue ball by some means other than a stroke is explicitly unsportsmanlike conduct. (Another example is taking a foul by tapping the cue ball with your ferrule. )
 
skor said:
So basically hitting the cue ball with the sides of the tip is illegal.
In the past there was a rule about “foul by miscue” that this type of stroke may fall under it.
This rule has been removed as unintentional miscue is not a foul anymore.
So I guess we are left with unsportsmanlike conduct.
Click to expand...

On a lift stroke you are not hitting the ball with the side of the tip. You are brushing the face of the tip across the ball.
 
freds said:
Oh right, you said that. Well yes there is, but it's in the CSI / BCA rules:

1-18 Legal Stroke
You must use a legal stroke. Any lifting, sideways, or other brushing motion of the cue,
such that the force that propels the cue ball does not primarily result from a forward
motion of the cue as defined under “Legal Stroke”, is a foul (see Diagram 4)

Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I remember, thanks. Shame it's not on the official WPA rules. I don't like using league rules as authoritative.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It is not explicitly called out.

A stroke is defined. The lift shot is not a stroke.

Moving the cue ball by some means other than a stroke is explicitly unsportsmanlike conduct. (Another example is taking a foul by tapping the cue ball with your ferrule. )
Click to expand...
Thanks. Any chance it could be added to the next revision of the WPA rules, similar to what Griffin's rules has?
 
if you see it in a tournament you can stop it and find a ref or t.d. to not let it happen.

in a cash gambling game all you can do is try to stop it if you havent already said it before you start.
unless you somehow state in the game is to be tournament rules and by which organization.

in a cash game all those things go on and not worth arguing about. if a guy wants to take a foul say by touching the cue ball with his ferral so what.
 
maha said:
if you see it in a tournament you can stop it and find a ref or t.d. to not let it happen.

in a cash gambling game all you can do is try to stop it if you havent already said it before you start.
unless you somehow state in the game is to be tournament rules and by which organization.

in a cash game all those things go on and not worth arguing about. if a guy wants to take a foul say by touching the cue ball with his ferral so what.
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This was in a 9 ball game. The 9 was about 1/4" off the rail and the cb was in a double kiss bank spot. So I rolled it on top of the 9, and they were perpendicular to the rail and about 1/4" apart from each other. A standard play in that situation.

When playing players who know the game, these micky mouse rules usually aren't stated. Otherwise you'd have to recite the whole rule book. One just doesn't expect a player to try a swipe up/lift shot.

Anyway, I stopped him, and he shot away from it with a normal stroke. But he was convinced it was legal.
 
I found a 2min clip on Dr Dave's youtube channel. I'll send this to the player.

I still don't like the way the WPA rules are written. One must do a lot of searching and interpreting to come to the conclusion that the lift stroke is illegal. I wish the WPA would just adopt the Griffin rules in whole.
 
Yep, i agree it should be clearer but in the WPA rules, rule 2.19, states that a shot begins with the cueball being struck by a forward motion of the cue. Should say that the upward/sideways shots are fouls but it doesn't unless they consider them Unsportsmanlike Conduct which is covered in 3.16.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It is not explicitly called out.

A stroke is defined. The lift shot is not a stroke.

Moving the cue ball by some means other than a stroke is explicitly unsportsmanlike conduct. (Another example is taking a foul by tapping the cue ball with your ferrule. )
Click to expand...
The only problem with that rule is how to penalize it. They're already taking a foul. Loss of game?
 
maha said:
... If a guy wants to take a foul say by touching the cue ball with his ferral so what.
Click to expand...
You might be in a position where you want to take an intentional foul and hardly move the cue ball at all. (Think 14.1 or One-Pocket.) Just tapping the top of cue ball with the ferrule makes that easy to do. But a legitimate stroke in that situation might unintentionally result in moving the cue ball to your opponent's advantage. Nerves can be hard to harness in pressure situations.
 
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