Cue Order

[mamono]

Older thread, but figure I'd add some perspective. I've visited Little Al's shop several times when it used to be upstairs at Hard Times Bellflower. Your tip had popped off at some point during a game that forced you to switch to your spare shaft, so between games you run upstairs to get it fixed. I've had cue repair done there as many of others have.

I was present when one of my friends was trying to get a quote for ordering a sneaky pete. Of all the times I've been upstair in Al's shop, I've never seen complete custom cues just sitting there waiting to be bought. Most cues I saw were in various state of work. His shop was actually quite small from what I remember. I honestly don't believe he was churning out cues like some people say in this thread.

 

[straightline]

Visited several times over the years but never went in the back.

 

[ShootingArts]

You pick a cue builder that builds a cue you like. When I had a shop somebody coming wanting a cue that I didn't like I would politely suggest that they go elsewhere. I am not putting my name on something that I have technical issues with. Might not build a cue I think would be butt ugly either!

The cue builder's name stays with a cue forever. Doesn't matter what mod's are done or how many times it is refinished it will always carry the builder's name.

Most builders have a certain hit. If you like that hit and can get together on other things, have them build the cue. If you want a very different hit you are probably better off to find a cue builder who usually builds to that hit.

When I was designing my shaft taper I tried a sixteen inch pro section like it was claimed Earl was using at the time. Maybe so, but it didn't work with the rest of my shaft design. The whole pool hall heard the snap before I put that one in the garbage can!

Hu

 

[MarknTorrance]

I called and ordered a cue from Al Romero today and it was rather interesting so I thought I'd share. I call him up and say I want to order a plain Sneaky, he asked me what length and I say 58 inches, he says okay. I tell him I want a 13mm shaft and he says okay.Then he asks what weight and I say 19, "that's too heavy, you wont be able to draw the ball' he says. Okay lets do 18 then, good he replies. Then he tells me the joint collars will be brown with rings, I say I would prefer a wood to wood joint "no the wood to wood joints will stick, I can do the brown collar on just the butt if you want?" says Al, no just do collars on both I reply. After that he asks if I would like a 3/8 x 10 joint or a 5/16 x 18 joint, I say 3/8 x 10. "the 3/8 x 10 will wear out the threads, the 5/16 x 18 is better" says AL, okay lets do the 5/16 x 18 I reply. " the cue will come with an extension for no extra charge, you can't win today without an extension" says Al, I say thanks and did not dare ask what length it would be. I ask him what tip he will put on the cue " I do elk master or Le pro tips, the new elk master tips are too hard, they are putting in a hardener that I don't like, the Le pro is the best tip you can get today" says AL, lets do a Le pro tip I reply. We then discussed price and payment which I thought he gave me a good deal on. I am not upset at all with how it went, I oftentimes prefer to go with the specs that the cuemaker recommends, I just thought the conversation was funny.

I have a 20 oz Little Al cue with a 3/8x 10 joint! NFS.

Mark

 

[maha]

remember a true sneaky doesn't have a weight bolt. its just wood to wood with some kind of simple joint.
and no layered tip either.

so its hard to get it heavy. then you are not going to have a real sneaky but a plain looking cue.

and for most, a lighter weight cue will be easier for them to draw the ball.

if you want a true sneaky for hiding your speed in a bar just get a bar cue you like how it hits, and have a joint put in to make it two piece.
or a joint that will take a custom shaft you like.

 

[hello]

I called and ordered a cue from Al Romero today and it was rather interesting so I thought I'd share. I call him up and say I want to order a plain Sneaky, he asked me what length and I say 58 inches, he says okay. I tell him I want a 13mm shaft and he says okay.Then he asks what weight and I say 19, "that's too heavy, you wont be able to draw the ball' he says. Okay lets do 18 then, good he replies. Then he tells me the joint collars will be brown with rings, I say I would prefer a wood to wood joint "no the wood to wood joints will stick, I can do the brown collar on just the butt if you want?" says Al, no just do collars on both I reply. After that he asks if I would like a 3/8 x 10 joint or a 5/16 x 18 joint, I say 3/8 x 10. "the 3/8 x 10 will wear out the threads, the 5/16 x 18 is better" says AL, okay lets do the 5/16 x 18 I reply. " the cue will come with an extension for no extra charge, you can't win today without an extension" says Al, I say thanks and did not dare ask what length it would be. I ask him what tip he will put on the cue " I do elk master or Le pro tips, the new elk master tips are too hard, they are putting in a hardener that I don't like, the Le pro is the best tip you can get today" says AL, lets do a Le pro tip I reply. We then discussed price and payment which I thought he gave me a good deal on. I am not upset at all with how it went, I oftentimes prefer to go with the specs that the cuemaker recommends, I just thought the conversation was funny.

Romero "That's too heavy, you wont be able to draw the ball''

Bustamente ''Hold my 21 ounce cue...''

 

[hello]

I called and ordered a cue from Al Romero today and it was rather interesting so I thought I'd share. I call him up and say I want to order a plain Sneaky, he asked me what length and I say 58 inches, he says okay. I tell him I want a 13mm shaft and he says okay.Then he asks what weight and I say 19, "that's too heavy, you wont be able to draw the ball' he says. Okay lets do 18 then, good he replies. Then he tells me the joint collars will be brown with rings, I say I would prefer a wood to wood joint "no the wood to wood joints will stick, I can do the brown collar on just the butt if you want?" says Al, no just do collars on both I reply. After that he asks if I would like a 3/8 x 10 joint or a 5/16 x 18 joint, I say 3/8 x 10. "the 3/8 x 10 will wear out the threads, the 5/16 x 18 is better" says AL, okay lets do the 5/16 x 18 I reply. " the cue will come with an extension for no extra charge, you can't win today without an extension" says Al, I say thanks and did not dare ask what length it would be. I ask him what tip he will put on the cue " I do elk master or Le pro tips, the new elk master tips are too hard, they are putting in a hardener that I don't like, the Le pro is the best tip you can get today" says AL, lets do a Le pro tip I reply. We then discussed price and payment which I thought he gave me a good deal on. I am not upset at all with how it went, I oftentimes prefer to go with the specs that the cuemaker recommends, I just thought the conversation was funny.

A cuemaker telling you what tip you should use is wild.

 

[straightline]

Little Al might be aware of how SB plays?

 

[maha]

A cuemaker telling you what tip you should use is wild.

he was telling what he knows that works from a long time of experience. not from what a bunch of companies tell you to sell their high priced products that are supposed to be better.

and knows that the more you put on or modify a cue the more likely it will not last or be the best choice for a person for playing.

 

[hello]

he was telling what he knows that works from a long time of experience. not from what a bunch of companies tell you to sell their high priced products that are supposed to be better.

and knows that the more you put on or modify a cue the more likely it will not last or be the best choice for a person for playing.

And which of todays top players are using a LePros..?

And if he thinks a 19 ounce cue won't draw well when this is probably the most common weight used, he does not seem to know all that much..?

 

[jay helfert]

Basically a cue maker that says let me make the cue my way which does not mean it is the best way for the cue’s owner.
With his approach, he can just make a bunch of SP cues so he has a supply on hand. You either buy his cue or don’t..

He must be successful or no one would indulge his approach. It’s my money, my cue and it’s made my way or not.
That’s my approach and I’m happy with my cue specs. BTW, lots of people draw the cue ball using a heavier cue.

This is not a knock on Al’s cue making. He’s been successfully making SP cues a long time. His bedside approach
needs improvement but he’s not inclined to change at this point and likely doesn’t have any incentive or reason to.

Your loss

 

[jay helfert]

Older thread, but figure I'd add some perspective. I've visited Little Al's shop several times when it used to be upstairs at Hard Times Bellflower. Your tip had popped off at some point during a game that forced you to switch to your spare shaft, so between games you run upstairs to get it fixed. I've had cue repair done there as many of others have.

I was present when one of my friends was trying to get a quote for ordering a sneaky pete. Of all the times I've been upstair in Al's shop, I've never seen complete custom cues just sitting there waiting to be bought. Most cues I saw were in various state of work. His shop was actually quite small from what I remember. I honestly don't believe he was churning out cues like some people say in this thread.

It took a few months to complete one cue. He usually had four or five in the works at one time. His SP are coveted on the West Coast. Al knows what he is doing, more than most of us.

 

[maha]

And which of todays top players are using a LePros..?

And if he thinks a 19 ounce cue won't draw well when this is probably the most common weight used, he does not seem to know all that much..?

maybe he realized he wasnt making a cue for a top player. and for a player that this cue might be more fitting.
you know average or even good players tend to want to emulate what the better player does or uses. that is a bad strategy.

and buddy who was decent seemed to use lepros for much of his time.

 

[ShootingArts]

maybe he realized he wasnt making a cue for a top player. and for a player that this cue might be more fitting.
you know average or even good players tend to want to emulate what the better player does or uses. that is a bad strategy.

and buddy who was decent seemed to use lepros for much of his time.

You make excellent points! When I am in stroke and playing regularly I use a very light stick and small tip. When I have not been playing regularly I use a heavier stick and bigger diameter tip. A lower crown is easier to play with too.

I use a 19-19.5 ounce stick with a tip between a nickel and quarter when I haven't been playing, maybe a flat in the center of the tip too.

In stroke I will use the lightest stick I can find, 15-16 ounce, and a tip radius approaching a dime. As I age I am finding that a true dime or smaller radius doesn't work as well for me.

For a playing cue, it is best to find a cue builder that builds a lot of similar cues. Even if you can talk somebody into building something they don't like, they rarely build it so they have less experience building that cue than another builder that likes that design.

If a cue needs added weight it can be put almost anywhere to balance the cue where wanted. Anywhere in the butt from just under the bumper to right behind the pin or anywhere in between. If absolutely necessary to get a balance far enough forward the weight can be put in the shaft behind the insert.

Quite possible to reverse the pin and insert if desired too. Makes it almost impossible to find replacement shafts that aren't custom made but I kinda like the pin in the shaft.

The cue I like for personal use suits few people. Soft hitting and light. I laugh when most people have no comment after trying my personal cue or just say it is light which they notice the moment they pick it up.

Few notice it is also long. The balance point is measured from the bumper but the call out is from the tip. Bass Ackwards of course. Measured from the tip, call out from the butt. Late night post!(grin) A balance point at 21" seems forward weighted until someone realizes that my 60" cue with a 21" balance point has the same balance point as a 58" cue with a 19" balance point. Measure from the tip and my 60" cue has exactly the same balance point as most 58" cues.

I meant to buy one of the fifteen dollar or less cues with the dice in the butt in a transparent section that you could see roll every time the cue was shot with. Some like that light up too. Cut that section off to put on a good cue. Now that there is a sneaky that calls would be gamblers! Academy Sports used to carry a fine selection of bubblegum cues for under twenty bucks. Those cues scream rube!

Hu

 

[Bavafongoul]

Your loss

Perhaps but as you’ve learned, there always is an alternative sooner or later that comes along.
Besides the bottomline is I am the customer, it’s my money and I am entitled to get what I want.

If what I want is inferior to how he’d otherwise build a cue, you still build it my way since I am
hiring you to build a cue and not to build just any cue, especially if it’s different than what I want.

To decline building a cue my way is a cue maker’s choice & a pretty dumb business approach, IMO.
It seems arrogant, especially since more talented, heralded cue makers build their cues differently.

Maybe it was my loss but I doubt it. I’ve played with one of his cues and I liked a Schmelke SP more,
3/8 x10 flat faced, 12.75mm (4 oz.) & 14.5 oz butt. I’m sure Al has his fans and I happen to not be one.

 

[jay helfert]

Perhaps but as you’ve learned, there always is an alternative sooner or later that comes along.
Besides the bottomline is I am the customer, it’s my money and I am entitled to get what I want.

If what I want is inferior to how he’d otherwise build a cue, you still build it my way since I am
hiring you to build a cue and not to build just any cue, especially if it’s different than what I want.

To decline building a cue my way is a cue maker’s choice & a pretty dumb business approach, IMO.
It seems arrogant, especially since more talented, heralded cue makers build their cues differently.

Maybe it was my loss but I doubt it. I’ve played with one of his cues and I liked a Schmelke SP more,
3/8 x10 flat faced, 12.75mm (4 oz.) & 14.5 oz butt. I’m sure Al has his fans and I happen to not be one.

Strong words about a damn good man.

 

[ShootingArts]

Strong words about a damn good man.

Al is a respected cue builder. Schmelke is a cue maker. My shop wasn't set up and I was curious how Schmelke could build such cheap cues so I bought one, cost around $200 best I remember. Neither their cheapest or most expensive cue.

One piece butt, not much to go wrong. The shaft warped almost instantly. No big deal since I could turn a shaft I liked better.

Then I barely bumped the side of the tip/ferrule. The cue fell half in two. The hole for the insert had been drilled oversized to the point the insert threads would barely score the wood, no effort made to thread the shaft for the insert, the hole was so big you could screw in the ferrule with very little pressure.

That might have worked with a generous amount of glue but they only put a tiny dab of glue.

The pin didn't appear to be a pin, some very soft threaded stock. I made a shaft for it when I had my lathe up but eventually the butt warped a little too.

All I got out of the $200 stick was the rubber bumper and a sorta straight one piece bubinga butt. The cheap cue ended up being pretty expensive since I paid fifty to a hundred times the price of the rubber bumper.

Schmelke makes some spliced butt blanks that a lot of people are happy with. Even telling people that the butt was built from a blank I couldn't put my name over Schmelke's work after seeing the cue I got from them.

Hu

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Al is a respected cue builder. Schmelke is a cue maker. My shop wasn't set up and I was curious how Schmelke could build such cheap cues so I bought one, cost around $200 best I remember. Neither their cheapest or most expensive cue.

One piece butt, not much to go wrong. The shaft warped almost instantly. No big deal since I could turn a shaft I liked better.

Then I barely bumped the side of the tip/ferrule. The cue fell half in two. The hole for the insert had been drilled oversized to the point the insert threads would barely score the wood, no effort made to thread the shaft for the insert, the hole was so big you could screw in the ferrule with very little pressure.

That might have worked with a generous amount of glue but they only put a tiny dab of glue.

The pin didn't appear to be a pin, some very soft threaded stock. I made a shaft for it when I had my lathe up but eventually the butt warped a little too.

All I got out of the $200 stick was the rubber bumper and a sorta straight one piece bubinga butt. The cheap cue ended up being pretty expensive since I paid fifty to a hundred times the price of the rubber bumper.

Schmelke makes some spliced butt blanks that a lot of people are happy with. Even telling people that the butt was built from a blank I couldn't put my name over Schmelke's work after seeing the cue I got from them.

Hu

that doesn't sound good at all. never had a Schmelke but I heard some good things about them like offering exotic materials at a budget price. I almost bought one out of curiosity before deciding to go to a custom cue builder. dropped the previous one I had since turn out difficult to talk to. delays and materials weren't delivered as specified and more problems. I guess some cue builders are only there for a one and done rather than having repeat customers and build a good reputation. but anyway, went for another cue builder and so far is meeting my expectations as cue specs go. so far, I'm happy with what I'm seeing with the process, communication, specs, materials and input for what would make the cue better. just to share. cue has just been finished and should be here hopefully before thursday next week for my match. 12mm ultraskin ivory soft tip with juma ferrule, carbon cored maple shaft. butt is a combo of bocote forearm and cocobolo handle/buttend. I'm excited to play with it already.

 

[Frosty]

To decline building a cue my way is a cue maker’s choice & a pretty dumb business approach, IMO.
It seems arrogant, especially since more talented, heralded cue makers build their cues differently.

Some believe in what they do, and won’t forsake that for money. That’s known as integrity, not as you call it, “a dumb ass business approach”.

You say it seems arrogant and use the example that “more heralded cue makers build their cues differently”. More heralded by who? You mention arrogance, and because you have regaled us REPEATEDLY with the story of your cues, most notably, what you put Bob Runde through, it appears to some that you may be arrogant, bordering on pompous. That you’re one of those with money and feel that somehow makes you right, about just about everything. Not a judgement, merely an observation.

There are those in life that will cater to the carriage trade and endure all their crap for money, there are those who will not. That doesn’t make those that will “better businessmen”, it just means they’re willing to do whatever to get that money. The customer isn’t always right, and frankly I admire the idealists that refuse to let the customer think he is.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Some believe in what they do, and won’t forsake that for money. That’s known as integrity, not as you call it, “a dumb ass business approach”.

You say it seems arrogant and use the example that “more heralded cue makers build their cues differently”. More heralded by who? You mention arrogance, and because you have regaled us REPEATEDLY with the story of your cues, most notably, what you put Bob Runde through, it appears to some that you may be arrogant, bordering on pompous. That you’re one of those with money and feel that somehow makes you right, about just about everything. Not a judgement, merely an observation.

There are those in life that will cater to the carriage trade and endure all their crap for money, there are those who will not. That doesn’t make those that will “better businessmen”, it just means they’re willing to do whatever to get that money. The customer isn’t always right, and frankly I admire the idealists that refuse to let the customer think he is.

I believe it would help to have a open conversation between a builder and a customer. it would be a difficult scenario if either of the 2 are stubborn to listen as far as the rationale of either side of building a cue. for me, I do respect the cue builders opinion and highly of them as they are the one building it and have been on the trade especially if they have been doing it since the beginning of time. in the part of the customer, it is also good if they say what they expect from a cue. now, I can understand if the cuemaker refuses to work on a cue if the sole purpose of the customer is only for aesthetics but is terrible for play. I guess I would direct the customer to some display wood/etc artisans rather than waste a cuemaker's time. point being, principle over money.