physical consequences of cue balance point location

Bad_influence said:
Hello!
Very interesting topic! I've been looking for a replacement for my beloved Meucci 88-6. Not that I'd be a die hard Meucci fan, but this particular cue just feels so good on the swing. But it is from the early 90s so I was looking for something modern to replace it as my playing cue.
I was under the impression that there can't really be too many parameters influence this, mainly weight and balance point. So I found a nice cue and trimmed it to the exact weight and balance point and was brutally disappointed the second I held the new cue in my hand. They are still 2 completely different cues, the new one doesn't feel anywhere near the meucci. And I'm only talking about how it feels on the swing, the linear motion for me feels like on autopilot, it is easy to achieve a straight linear motion. Could be muscle memory or something, but the lesson for me was that the weight distribution over the whole length must play a big role.

So to dig more into this I'm currently modifying a cheap OK Healing break cue. Originally at 19oz, I first added some weight in the thread in the back of the cue without any positive results (the meucci is arount 20.5).
So I drilled out the hole in the back from about 6 inches deep as far as I could. I don't have a laithe, so I've just ordered a bunch of brass weights I can stack into the hole with wooden spacers in between. I hope I can achieve some kind of familiar feel by adding the weights and spacers in such an order that the overall weight distribution comes closer to what I'm searching for.

Perhaps this is all irrelevant and I'd get used to other cues, too. But I don't really want to miss this kind of feedback from my playing cue.
Click to expand...
read post #104 above
he mentions how its not just the weight and balance but how the weight is distributed
that could be why your 2 cues dont feel the same
 
bbb said:
read post #104 above
he mentions how its not just the weight and balance but how the weight is distributed
that could be why your 2 cues dont feel the same
Click to expand...
That difference between two cues is going to be very, very difficult to notice. If you had a piston stroke, it would be impossible to notice, because the stick is not rotated perpendicular to its long axis.

With a pendulum stroke, the stick is rotated some in the vertical plane, and the weight distribution would cause the cue to be slightly harder or easier to rotate.

If you wanted to put a number on that weight distribution, you could put a pin through the balance point -- drill a hole through the stick at the balance point -- and measure how hard it is to spin the cue stick around that pin, using the pin as an axle.

But with anything close to a normal cue construction, any such change in feel is going to be way, way below the change in feel from the location of the balance point.

For those interested in the technical details, try searching on "second mass moment of inertia of a tapered rod".
 
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Bad_influence said:
Hello!
Very interesting topic! I've been looking for a replacement for my beloved Meucci 88-6. Not that I'd be a die hard Meucci fan, but this particular cue just feels so good on the swing. But it is from the early 90s so I was looking for something modern to replace it as my playing cue.
I was under the impression that there can't really be too many parameters influence this, mainly weight and balance point. So I found a nice cue and trimmed it to the exact weight and balance point and was brutally disappointed the second I held the new cue in my hand. They are still 2 completely different cues, the new one doesn't feel anywhere near the meucci. And I'm only talking about how it feels on the swing, the linear motion for me feels like on autopilot, it is easy to achieve a straight linear motion. Could be muscle memory or something, but the lesson for me was that the weight distribution over the whole length must play a big role.

So to dig more into this I'm currently modifying a cheap OK Healing break cue. Originally at 19oz, I first added some weight in the thread in the back of the cue without any positive results (the meucci is arount 20.5).
So I drilled out the hole in the back from about 6 inches deep as far as I could. I don't have a laithe, so I've just ordered a bunch of brass weights I can stack into the hole with wooden spacers in between. I hope I can achieve some kind of familiar feel by adding the weights and spacers in such an order that the overall weight distribution comes closer to what I'm searching for.

Perhaps this is all irrelevant and I'd get used to other cues, too. But I don't really want to miss this kind of feedback from my playing cue.
Click to expand...
I had similar experience a couple of times with different cues: Even if the static balance point and weight are exactly the same, two different cues can feel very different while swinging!

I assume that pysically the static balance point is only a result of the mass distribution allover the entire cue. Besides this problably major issue there are other subdominant factors influencing the feel of a cue while swinging: Diameter of the grip section, taper of the shaft, material and topography / roughness / grip behavior of the grip in the handle section.

Try it out with a certain butt and different shafts. Very likely two shafts of same size and weight, even with same taper, can feel differently while swinging the cue. Minor differences of the weight distribution just of shafts of same type and same weight can feel differenty while swinging!

Also, consider that you mostly don‘t recognize differences in the static balance point of the entire cue if you have tow different shafts with same weight but slightly different shaft‘s static balance points. Usually we are talking about fractions of millimeters of maybe 1-2 mm. Who does measure the static balance points such exact!
 
Last edited:
riedmich said:
Try it out with a certain butt and different shafts
Click to expand...
There are only minimal changes to that behaviour with different shafts. I've tried the original, a 30" made by Meucci with matching rings, a rhino cf and a 314-3. Only the rhino made it feel a bit different because it is about 10-20g heavier than the wooden shafts. But that "linear acceleration" thing that I value the 88-6 for is still there.
Haven't checked the indiviual balance points of each shaft yet but here are the weights:
314-3 3,88oz 110,0g
88-6 29" 3.43oz 97,34g
88-6 30" 3,92oz 111,37g
Rhino 12.2mm 4,23oz 120,33g

Following up on the experiments with the chinese break cue: I've extended the 10mm hole in the back of an ok healing break cue to a good 4 inches front of the point where the grip area ends, so probably 2/3 of the length of the butt. Now I'm preparing some weights and wooden spacers so i can try a few different ways to distribute the weight by moving the weights and the spacers around. This should hopefully get me to a similar distribution i have on the 88-6. Although the goal is, to have a cheap chinese break cue that performs better than it does now. Right now with the wood drilled out it is about 18oz so i have some weight to play with.
 
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